IPhone/iPad app for monome website?

  • Has there been any discussion to create a iPhone/iPad app
    for easy navigation of the website/forum on the small screen?

    Not a programmer myself, but thought it might be handy for
    a lot of people.

  • How i hate their slogan "There's an app for that".

    Seriously though, what problems do you have browsing from an i* device? I have no problems browsing either the monome website or using the forum on my Android based HTC Magic phone.

    I don't see any benefit in having a separate stand alone application for browsing a website since various browsers already exist.

  • that would be killer!
    i hate zooming in and out and scrolling side to side.
    i doubt someone will put the time and effort to make a easy workable app though.
    but if they do!
    ill mooch as usual.
    hmmm...
    like a main page with 3 icons.
    one for news, doc, and community.
    with the newest post on the forum at the bottom.
    just some thoughts

  • I don't know. I usually get along fine on my iTouch, I just have to zoom in a lot though.

    If enough people here want it, I would consider making it.

  • Building an app seems a bit drastic. There are cleaner faster ways to support smaller screen sizes without having to fork interface development like that. A few minimal CSS changes should be all that's needed.

  • I also wonder if using an RSS reader instead of the website itself wouldn't solve the problem.

  • Anyway, here's the theory behind what I'd propose:
    http://www.alistapart.com/articles/responsive-web-design/

    and some examples:
    http://www.zeldman.com/2010/06/23/responsive-design-is-the-new-black/
    http://line25.com/articles/showcase-of-outstanding-responsive-web-designs

    It's less complicated than it sounds.

  • Yeah.
    @Greater.
    I know that tehn and some other people are working on rebuilding this website under vanilla2 (this may be a rumor, but I'm sure I read it) so that's why I don't really support an app for it, at least not until the revisions are complete.

    If however, everyone and their mom, yes that means you momma stretta, wants an app then.....

  • I use reeder on iOS/OS X to read here the majority of the time. love it. but it's not perfect. also awesome is touchBB, but it's not supported here. not sure if that could be remedied or if it's a totally different framework (some forums just need to add some script to play nice with it). but yea, a dedicated app is overkill.

  • Excuse my cynicism and also in quoting the egotistical Apple advert:

    "Yup, if you don’t have an iPhone..."......'you’ll be able to play flash video, use a multitude of different media formats and change your battery'

    Sorry, couldn't resist, each to their own............ ;-)

  • @fluxsta.
    Apple never intended you can't change the battery, they just designed it so it doesn't pop off or anything. If you want to change it, here ya go, real easy:
    http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-iPhone-4-Battery/3141/1

    And as for flash, if you want that battery swallower of a language, hack it.

  • It would be nice if replacing the battery didn't require a custom screwdriver and voiding the warranty :)

  • Now, now.

    It's not unreasonable to wish that your browser supported de facto web standards. And it's clearly unreasonable to expect the entire industry to rethink how they build web experiences (as evidenced by the number of utility sites that you simply can't open without Flash, even today).

    So, for instances when you really need information from a Flash site while you're away from your desk, you can curse the web developer or you can curse Apple, but how does any of that help you? Wouldn't it be better if you could just... click on something to enable Flash for a while, and then turn it off again?

    Something like this, perhaps:
    https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/flashblock/

    It wouldn't have been difficult for Apple to limit Flash without crippling the mobile user.

    Or...

    Maybe it would be better to let the user download their choice of browsers from the App store? That wouldn't have been difficult either.

    These are reasonable compromises. Forcing the user to violate the EULA isn't.

  • Considering how popular the iOs product line is, and how many billions of dollars it has made them, I suspect Apple is pretty confident they are doing everything pretty well so far.

    Please don't make an iOs app.

    If something is done, just make a mobile optimized skin for the site.

    Once we move to the new forum, I'd be very happy to donate a week of my spare time to the endeavor since that's what I do as a day job.

    "It's not unreasonable to wish that your browser supported de facto web standards. And it's clearly unreasonable to expect the entire industry to rethink how they build web experiences (as evidenced by the number of utility sites that you simply can't open without Flash, even today)."

    Flash is NOT a web standard, it's closed, it requires a plugin, it's made by Adobe.

    I think apple gambled that the entire industry would rethink how they build the web, and to be honest, most of the industry was very happy to do so. Most people have moved to HTML5 for video and audio. Canvas and WebGL is already eating away at Flashes last strong hold "rich web".

    Angry birds wasn't released online this week using flash. No way. Flash is dead. Even Adobe is moving towards embracing HTML5.

  • I'm interested in original topic. so no apple/android/whatever pissing match, please.

  • http://post.monome.org/comments.php?DiscussionID=5615

    This was the last discussion.

    I'd guess that waiting a few weeks (?) would be wise, things might be different once we're on the new forums, last I saw they're a fair bit different.

  • >>
    Flash is NOT a web standard, it's closed, it requires a plugin, it's made by Adobe.

  • There is no standard for Flash from the W3C. It's not a de facto standard either, because not everything can run it, and not everyone wil/ run it. There may be standards (from Adobe) on how to code for it, and how the plugin & delivered content should be handled, but it's not a general web standard. Why the debate about Flash, anyway? I don't think anyone's seriously proposing it for a cell phone version of the forum!

    That being said, the monome website doesn't need a whole app for a single platform, just a customized CSS stylesheet that can do @media or @import. Ideally the forum backend software could deliver a special mobile browser version. Stylesheets only go so far in (re)presenting content -- most probably the mobile forum would need additional restructuring beyond CSS tricks.

  • I didn't say that the w3c has a spec up, or that Flash is even recognized by the w3c. I said it was a de facto standard. As in "this is the platform that industry has settled on for the development of whole classes of web content."

    That's changing, in large part because of the iPhone, but it's not changing quickly. Small businesses aren't adapting because their web guy is still an inexperienced designer with minimal programming skills. And large businesses are generally content to maintain a separate version of their site for iOS users.

    I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying that when Apple looked at a technology with 98% browser penetration at the time and said "we're not going to allow that on our machine in any form," that decision crippled an otherwise advanced mobile browser.

    I'm also adding that the decision to not allow alternate browsers on the device crippled an otherwise powerful operating system.


    Again... I'm not saying that these are bad decisions for Apple. Apple isn't losing money, and of course they're confident in their decision -- when is Apple ever not confident in any decision? I don't purport to know what the best decision for Apple is, and I don't care.

    What I'm saying that Apple's decision is not influenced by the needs of the consumer, and that they're abusing a monopoly by not allowing other browsers on their hardware. (see Microsoft vs DoJ, re: Internet Explorer. That all was harmless in comparison)

    I mean, whether or not you like Flash, you should have the option of running it when you need to, without hacking your phone. Choice is good.

  • guuuuys, keep it on topic!

    i did some work a while ago on some css for a mobile version of the site, i think it got lost but i'll take a look.

    definitely a good idea in my opinion but its probably worth waiting for vanilla2 :)

  • "I mean, whether or not you like Flash, you should have the option of running it when you need to, without hacking your phone. Choice is good."

    You have choice. Buy an android.

  • Throwing away your investment because of someone else's refusal to compromise on a couple of easily changed policies seems like the wrong solution. In fact, I'd call the suggestion hurtful and insulting unless it comes with a refund or a comprehensive trade-in program.

    This isn't a wall that I'm bashing my head into. It's a policy. Policies change every day. And I'm not talking about a hardware change, or asking Apple to re-program any of their work. There's no cost, and we don't need to force the Flash player on people who don't want it.

    I'm simply asking that, if Opera or Mozilla want to sell me a browser app and I want to pay them for it, nobody deliberately stand in the way of that transaction. That's it.



    re: staying on topic,

    I thought we resolved that. CSS updates, no app, probably worth waiting for vanilla2. Is there a next action that's currently on hold pending input from this thread?

  • It hasn't run flash from day one, it's not something they removed after you purchased it. If you purchase an electronic product without first researching whether it does the one you you really want it to, how is that apples fault.

    They've been pretty consistent from the beginning on their stance on flash and why it's not in their browser. They've been pretty consistent on the fact that they won't allow 3rd party browsers and they want to own and manage the core interactions that people will have with the device.

    I personally think those decisions are why the product has done so well.

  • Are you still using your iphone from 4 years ago? I'm not sure suggesting moving to the android platform after 4 years of use of a consumer handheld device is throwing away your investment. 4years is a pretty long amount of time to get out of a phone.

  • I agree, up to a point. But a lot of that's revisionist history.

    The initial marketing stressed that this was a full web browser, not a limited mobile experience, so it was commonly assumed (and not quickly corrected) that Flash support would arrive in an early software update. And while one could probably argue that this was a lie by omission, I think it just wasn't officially decided yet. The official announcement occurred later, at... I want to say WWDC 2008?

    If that weren't misleading, we wouldn't have this:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/aug/27/apple.apple

    And the line they're objecting to underscores everything I've been saying:

    "You never know which part of the internet you'll need ... which is why all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone"

    To this day, I still run into situations where I have to call someone and ask them to look up information on their desktop because one site or another hasn't made the transition from their all-flash presence. We can point fingers in all directions, but I only see one entity actively blocking solutions.

    Some of that's addressed here:
    http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/
    ...and I concede that some of Steve's explanation is completely accurate. But a lot of it isn't. And at the end of the day, I don't care what his reasons are. I just want the option to view stuff online.

  • Personally, I've never had any issues with sites that caused me to remember they had issues. Which is why I've owned every generation of the iphone and will happy buy the 5th.

    I guess my only suggestion (as mentioned above) is when you decide to upgrade from your original iphone, maybe consider one of the androids, I hear some of them are good.

  • re: transitioning,

    Hardware is only part of the equation. The apps one accumulates don't depreciate in value, but instead build a wall of "I can't replace all this." Which apps do you sacrifice, which apps to you pay for a second time, and which apps do you have to find alternatives for because they simply don't exist anywhere else?

    I don't feel it's unreasonable to replace one's hardware every few years, but jumping platforms isn't a casual prospect for anyone.

  • Apples golden handcuffs is genius from a business perspective. Most of this thread, I've been somewhat trolling ;) but I am a self confessed fan boy.

    They completely dominate this market, no other device + os combination comes close, the last 10 years is a case study on how to run a business.

  • Agreed completely.

    I've been mulling it over, and I think the right course of action for myself (eventually) is as follows:

    * buy an iPad and install my apps on that.

    * buy an Android and transfer my phone service to it.

    That will be the best of both worlds, I think. I'll have better GPS (google maps + voice = win) and my choice of browser technologies in the pocket device. Those and a tip calculator are all I genuinely need in my pocket anyway. But then I'll still have all my iOS apps, and I'll have them on a larger touch screen.

    There are probably holes in this plan, but right now it makes sense to me.

  • i seem to recall someone making an iphone stylesheet, and i recall installing it, but beyond that, i have no idea.

    yes, wait for vanilla2.