Pitch and Speed Table?

  • OK, I searched all morning with various terms and found nothing. So I know someone on this forum is going to know where I can get what I need, y'all are good like that. I saw on a thread here (probably relating to MLRV or Mash) someone referring to the pitch and time relation, i.e the obvious speed it up double and it'll go up an octave, double in pitch. But, they were talking about raising something by a third I think and the number for the increase had a bunch of numbers after the decimal place. So finally, my question is; does anyone know of, or have, a table which relates semitone pitch changes to speed increases/ decreases? This would greatly help my workflow. If not, do you know a way I can fairly easily work these changes out for each semitone up and down? That way I can make a table myself and share with the community. Sorry if this is super obvious and has been done a million times and I'm just a theory noob being nooby. Peace. HN

  • I have always wondered the same exact thing! If it'll make you feel less nooby, the double speed octave wasn't obvoius to me.

  • i worked this out for my shfflr app, so you could dig it out of the max code, but as i recall:

    if you let 1 be an increase of an octave, then each equal tempered step will be 1/12 ( 0.08333333333 ), i do believe. It's early in the morning and before a coffee, so do double check that ;D

  • using this in max will convert from pitch to speed relationshop.

    so 0 = 1, 12 = 2 etc.

    expr pow(2.,$f1/12)

  • can't remember the reverse, have definitely used it somewhere before but trying to search through a mass of near finished audio looping patches and projects is taking a while, heh.

  • @Blipsford Baubie; for every 0.83333333 my noobness drops there's another thing around the corner that bumps it up by 12.

    @lokey, I knew someone here would know, thanks. So to drop it by a semitone would I just subtract 0.08333333 from the original 1? This is where it gets confusing for me as in theory you should be able to keep lowering pitch, but once you get into the minus figures isn't something strange going to happen? Thats what originally confused me, I thought it might have to be some exponential change. On the plus side I have noticed that in Logic 9 you can set Varispeed in the transport bar to adjust speed and pitch together and then you can specify the Detune in semitones, brilliant. As soon as I get time I could type in some values and check the resultant tempo/ length change to work out a table which would be useful for other applications. Someone else might find it useful. Can I up images on this forum?

    @Myr; I wish I had time for max, if only i'd had max when I was a misguided teenager, thanks though.

    HN

  • well that's basically the expression you need written out above.

    Pitch divided by 12 to the power of 2 equals the Speed.

    Here's the table:

    -24, 0.25;
    -23, 0.264866;
    -22, 0.280616;
    -21, 0.297302;
    -20, 0.31498;
    -19, 0.33371;
    -18, 0.353553;
    -17, 0.374577;
    -16, 0.39685;
    -15, 0.420448;
    -14, 0.445449;
    -13, 0.471937;
    -12, 0.5;
    -11, 0.529732;
    -10, 0.561231;
    -9, 0.594604;
    -8, 0.629961;
    -7, 0.66742;
    -6, 0.707107;
    -5, 0.749154;
    -4, 0.793701;
    -3, 0.840896;
    -2, 0.890899;
    -1, 0.943874;
    0, 1.;
    1, 1.059463;
    2, 1.122462;
    3, 1.189207;
    4, 1.259921;
    5, 1.33484;
    6, 1.414214;
    7, 1.498307;
    8, 1.587401;
    9, 1.681793;
    10, 1.781797;
    11, 1.887749;
    12, 2.;
    13, 2.118926;
    14, 2.244924;
    15, 2.378414;
    16, 2.519842;
    17, 2.66968;
    18, 2.828427;
    19, 2.996614;
    20, 3.174802;
    21, 3.363586;
    22, 3.563595;
    23, 3.775497;
    24, 4.;


    And here's how i worked it out using max:


    ----------begin_max5_patcher----------
    566.3ocyV0saaBCF8Z3ovxZWrIQyvFZ.1c64XcJx.NotCLHvjl0p9tOrMDRV
    CD.kw5EwV9ylOeNmuebd0z.FlcfVBAeC7CfgwqlFFJSRCFMqMfojCQIjR0wf
    ozxRxNJzRumfdPnrGkPIEsV2lwEkrWnxcP3U1MlyIhnGY7caJnQB8k5ZaWuM
    .sVM43oV3uxF7ylugEqbeV3S2gca8OuJMqRjPEJLgZrpMI9cNU6aH7nWj.hS
    RUa.+dAijbhqX7VOgk1dyzTNXMRAIrRHx3v9onCVSQ0H933EYn8DYXHguqik
    mwEzL3Bm9bMLdWrU.X.1zisGItN1hWce+LG4eYli6i4Lt.ZomlZT9FpL2A5R
    Jmrv3MBcIXhIDyQOv2N8n5EFvM.XOaMwUMduyPUI8jp3LXQhU27+YMJmD8q5
    BpsyufR2rzMXHQx6iXuxdTjnrjDffDlPmulDnSbBFpXZ8k0D2d0DqS9M4tLM
    FKI6owapu9ZHugHDEr5WLzu4ZbTlLfzzPpBo1JCJg8FIuzC4Ef7rm+Ld0COX
    8osnuhveYFJst1D4nmPtCk9g9Wm9cZSb02BSX7+9uxnXgz94hVYVUQT6M29t
    KniGwzRAiSDr5206Nj+Ym4QVbLUscqjEyJkovcAw2E8FKbj2D9JnIXwPi7Et
    qJNqWL3f7GAb7VN3LRzfVDz38wKTgtBbPKFbBFg3flaUttGDIOeOsnrwmJjT
    2h9orB4x0VpkLtdoxivB5dV648Mkd6My+.84XbC
    -----------end_max5_patcher-----------

  • @Myr; Thankyou for doing that. I can't get those numbers using 'pitch divided by 12 to the power of 2', I'm just putting in 3 for a third, dividing by 12, to the power of 2 and i'm getting 0.0625. I'm clearly missing something obvious but I can't figure it out. I like to get things straight in my head if possible, it bothers me not understanding something so fundamental.
    Thanks again for the table, I'll be using it when I get home. HN

  • damn, waited too long to post that, myr got to it first, good man there.

  • with regards to Mash, I built this into mash2. can jump octaves, fifths and semitones on the fly.

    I made it so C3 (midi note 60) is speed 1.
    C4 is 2. etc.

    this was so pitch could be controlled from a midi keyboard. which I haven't added in yet.

    pic of the working below. I remember I had to round the numbers to get proper pitching..

    theres probably an easier way but this works..

    254 x 78 - 12K
  • yeah, this was built into my shfflr app, set to a mappable live.dial

    feel free to dig into that for a max example, it's buried in with the granulation part of the patch...

  • here it is applied to MIDI with midi-reference pitch 60:

    ----------begin_max5_patcher----------
    458.3ocuT00biBBE8Y8WACy9P6LVW.MZru0eGa6rCQwDZMfCPlltc5+8UupM
    llraroe3CBb3x8dNG75y9d3E5sBKFcM5WHOum887.nV.u90d307s4UbKDFtr
    Rq1rFGzsUM2kuRpV9aiH20klzYgj.DiD0NDAKnogDzc8Go4zRUkvAoitCTuw
    Mfx5QW4Dac45JsoK0jv4ojYymGbzYzQEQV.jUu39qnCbsTqbJ9ZAryMFIuZX
    mtR6dpVzUmVQxc3.DdAWsD+ZVWrbexjz7jFbzYiIiyHs47JH4jvrQzwJ+Cfl
    ERZAew2u8UvDuJThGaD3fHZ8J.Vrs1fp0OdA61aCt3GkzeRYWd4IuwnIIv.c
    94bkQOz3Ymgwuyq+xrmqPIjvS6FQfMDE8+MC1TMiny9qvOQG4AakrPXNo3yn
    PKbVLXAwuOwyNT7wCUb0Chm1qEZFglkPCN5rwsPG3MREze1N7ZP0FgUnbbmT
    qFoIZ2E5r+klzkkVADKKtGxzz1CUJkMxlgSfqjp29GSvHaw226s5Ml7AB22Q
    f1U2Bg0IU.aGECcuXVIKJDv1jdj0xhZcir6o.5ti9cvTYTzDXD6akQwSfQQe
    .F0r3E++BfLyWpD
    -----------end_max5_patcher-----------

  • think I opted for 2 decimals so you could loop a root and fifth together without rhythmic drift. at the expense of some subtle tuning..

  • thats a good point! Ive only ever used it in a granular context, so there wasn't any timing issues with pitch shifting, but for loops, surely.

  • @Raja; I don't know about waste of time, gotta love a table, but I'd love to learn the math if there is anyone wouldn't mind explaining. Also, I've only really used max to load monome patches, so how do I load that text into max runtime? Cheers HN

  • i think you need to purchase the full version.

    "a table
    which relates semitone pitch
    changes to speed increases/
    decreases? This would greatly help
    my workflow"

    just curious.. What is it you wish to use this for?

  • @Blipsford; Like I said, for some reason changing pitch and speed together is a really clean way of changing pitch. I work mostly with a guitar and limited effects to make loops as a starting point (just made a really cool dual looper layout in Mainstage allowing realtime pan and reverb control of 2 loopers with an mpd32, simple but effective). After I've made the loops I put them into Logic, Live, MLRV or some other software I've got clogging my dock and start to play with them. It very often sounds good to duplicate a loop and drop the pitch of one them as a starting point for bass lines or harmony which of course because of the pitch and speed thing now doesn't line up with the original, but thats part of the fun and surprise. Also, friends send me something like a basic melody on some instrument or voice and its great to use this method, slowing or speeding up (also probably non destructive as you can just change the speed back again) to drastically change something which you're not completely 'getting'. Not saying I use it every time, but I love it and use it often, now I have the table to do it in semitones too - Thanks Myr. Also thickens up my tinny vocals and makes me sound like an 8ft Elvis : )

  • Great!
    Thanks Myr!

  • Thanks Raja, I'll have another read through that tonight, I think it'll take some time for me to completely get what you just said. P.S. I've just been watching InterDimensionalShadowBoxing, it rules, really makes me want to make some harder edge digital stuff. It also just changed my mind about varibrightness being gimmicky, too bad it won't work on my 2010 gs64.

  • it sounds like everyone is cool, but i had to add this, which helped me out when i had the same question

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_root_of_two

    and don't miss

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhu_Zaiyu,_Prince_of_Zheng

  • @95: choicest yet.