new launchpad monome emulator!!!

  • i'm doing the betatester for an english programmer... what i can have now is a full work monome emulator On launchpad... 64/128/256 switch and for now 6 different monome apps that can be more in the future... this is the most stable emutation that u can have on launchpad... Monomeemu sucks in front of this... this is the only one emulator made on live 9 and max 6
    I already tested with all stretta patches ( obo, polygome, bounds) and mlr , samplr, monomidi, monolive, m4l drum rack , plinkonome... And we will fix the rest soon... i have now a real monome 40h and i cant see the difference... For now is a test.. If u want to know more .... Check what he said : The advanced Monome emulation will allow 8 separate Monome 64/128/256 apps to be configured and accessed from the Launchpad... Release on these week ... we are still tested l the zero conf stuff

  • I appreciate your enthusiasm, but understand, this is all fictional 'til we see a download link.

  • if this is as badass as you claim I would've KILLED to have this back in the early days of my live sets, before i had my 128 (thanks, student loans!) i was running mlr with nonome and a launchpad. took me a hot minute to figure that one out.

  • I was happy to make a little bit of suspance :) the only thing that i can said ...he started a projec wich The LP Interface provides an easy-to-use abstraction for using your Launchpad from either inside M4L or standalone in a MAX application. All midi/LOM communications are handled for you and a single entry point is provided for receiving updates from the LP and sending updates to the LP.
    If you wish to use your Launchpad outside of the pre-provided Ableton Live/Automap functionality but have neither the desire or the time to do the low-level programming, then this product can provide you with a whole new lease of life to your button pushing...after this i contacted this man to ask him to adds every monome features :) he worked for long time but is release must be purchased... Is not so much and for a form of respect i paid too because i passed 1 year to find someone that was able to fix monomeemu and nobody did :)

  • So how can we purchase this if this man is going to ask money for it? And are there any links to see it at work, such as a youtube video or so?

  • ... link / dowload or it didn't happen ....

    And I'm not gonna complain about MAX/M4L-apps-as-payware .....

  • we want to make the best emulator ever...need just some other days to make the new serialosc patches works but if u want a video... i did one 3 days ago.. it was a 128 emulator with obo64 & polygome ...now the interface emulate a 256 ...


  • i'm running a white old macbook with only 2 gb ram and u can see that there are no refresh problem :D

  • about a payware apps...if u pay u can have support...someone that fix problems and update the interface... i discovered every angle of internet before found someone that was able to fix monomeemu... he did a new one with a lots of more things to make a launchpad like a real battle weapon.. i am glad to pay 10 dollars to have something like that... i saw my idea born

  • Hi all... thx pj for the video - it's great (you should use multiple colours next time ;)) - it's great to see the interest in this, but I'm still finalising some stuff on this version so I'll not be ready to released until Sunday/Monday - just want to let people know :)

  • ahahah he is the man :D suspance is finished :D
    @mikebosh already paid ahahhaha ... are u a detective ? you found us :D

  • If you guys are planning on charging for this you should really be talking to tehn about it first. While the idea of an emulator is fantastic, charging for it really goes against the community spirit.

    There is some unreleased code phortran has worked on for monome emulation on any grid device that works perfectly and is completely free, don't drink the Kool aid kids.

  • i'm not going to stop you by any means, but i will say that charging for an emulator that takes advantage of an open-source community is unabashedly opportunistic. if everyone here took that path our wiki wouldn't exist.

    stay positive.

  • I dont know what to think...i have a real monome and i like to have the idea to use these apps on other controllers... Before some months ago a lot of people used monomeemu, nonome or monodular... Nobody stopped them or said that was not correct... What i can say is that we started from a different idea...make a launchpad native mode...to remapped and customize it...after these we added these emulation( that is just a little part of the patch)...these app is more than a simple lp emulation..and if someone takes some months to create that i think that must have some little payment if he wants to take a profit..there are a lot of maxforlive app on the web that must be purchased...if a programmer works why cant take profict? And we are not talking about a lot of dollars..i discovered every angle of the web to find some new emulation that work on live 9 and max 6... I fault then i contacted him ...everybody can not purchase these...i hope to see some other valid alternative for free..but i saw for months a lot of desperate people on the monomeemu post..and nobody helped them or me

  • @tenh. I don't really want to argue the merits of this, and it is something I thought hard about. As logarithm mentioned, this is an extension to a product am trying to sell. You could argue that this should also be free, many people seem to object to paying for any max/m4l patches at all. To ensure these developments are fit for purpose and production ready takes a lot of time, and supporting the product after, and I don't think that asking for a beer for this is overly opportunistic. I did not intend to cause any upset or offence by this -please feel free to delete this thread from the site if you feel it's against the spirit

  • also, @thealphanerd, if he sends me links to his stuff, I am more than happy to put this up on my site so that people can see that there are alternatives

  • hey sigabort, i do think your app looks pretty cool and i'm sure you put a lot of work into it. for what it's worth i'm not totally offended by you wanting to sell your hard work even if it happens to involve monomes to some degree. software developers have to eat too right?? :)

    i do think it's long past time that a simple free solution is available for people that want to emulate and i put a little time in yesterday getting this going. i think the code i have will work but i need help from people with various midi-based grids to create mappings. i own no launchpad, nor apc40, apc20, livid, qu-neo, bliptronome, push, etc. kind of crazy how many clones there are out there now isn't it?

    so whoever wants a free emulator and has one of those devices meet me on irc with your device in hand and about an hour or two to figure some things out. irc.freenode.net in the #monome channel.

  • @sigabort

    I of course believe that software developers deserve to eat / drink / be merry. What I think is missing is the spirit of the community. Look at mlrv for example. It would be quite hard for you to convince me that you have put more time in to your emulator than @galapagoose and @% put into mlrv. In the case of mlrv, the two developers offered a donation option, which gave early access and the ability to buy that beer that you are talking about.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking money, and in the case of many max/msp applications it completely makes sense, if you are looking to find a way to support your endeavors. BUT, in the case of the monome, I think it is a little bit different.

    For your app to have any use you are relying on the monome platform. There is the orginal device and the driver that have been funded by the cost of the device, but there are also all of the apps. The apps have for the most part been developed by people like myself, @phortran, @stretta, @galapagoose, @%, @stevieraysean, @wrl, etc etc etc.

    Without the apps created by the community, all of which were written without expecting any money, your app would have no purpose. Where are the beers you are buying for us for making the platform you are attempting to profit off of?

    I won't even bother touching on the concept that those most likely to use / pay for such an emulator are the lowest common denominator user, most likely trying to buy in to the eco-system for the least amount, least likely to contribute, most likely to show up with a million questions. As much as you want to say you will offer support for that $10, when you are not around the responsibility will fall on the rest of us, those not looking to profit.

    I appreciate your effort, and I appreciate your product. That being said, forcing users to buy in, makes me lose respect for you.

  • Well, it's nice to be judged without asking me, or speaking to me about anything...
    Firstly, I'd like to point out I am not relying on this platform - the main 2 purposes of the controller are nicely pulling in sales - and this is a small part of the main development at www.sigabort.co/m4l_live. The monome emulation was only born out of being asked to do it for someone and as I was committing some time and effort to it over a couple of months I thought I'd ask for $3 per sale, which is about $1.50 in my pocket, so I don't think that's really forcing anyone to buy in or hoping to clean up with this. You've made assumptions without following up or having the courtesy to speak to me before judging who I am and how I act and how I'm trying to take advantage of people. All my developments are centred around people without deep programming skills, or the time to be able to commit to learning these things, being able to build and control their system in anyway they want through the code I develop. Adding the ability to control Monome as one part of this seemed sensible when I was asked if I could do it. As for using other people's stuff for free, until I started looking into this development I wasn't really aware of what existed.. I now see what is out there and have seen a few apps which are outstanding, e.g. obo, bounder, polygome which are outstanding.. If I ever use any of these apps in the future then I'll be more that happy to donate a few beers to Stretta in this case, or others, in appreciation of their efforts and the hope that they continue to develop these products.
    In the interests of community spirit and to demonstrate that I am not the person you have judged me to be, I am quite happy to drop the charges for the Monome emulation and make it donation. I can't forgo the cost of the base controller as it's where I'm intending to make a bit of cash so I can continue to develop apps for the Live community. So, if anyone wants that functionality and then decide they want to play with Monome they can have it and buy me a beer if they want to or not. I don't really think I can say fairer than that. As others have mentioned above, there are free solutions available so people are more than welcome to use those and I will not be directly profiting off people as you point out...
    I also think your'e statement about people buying in with an emulator is lowest common denominator - the Monome is a high cost piece of kit compared to other solutions around - not something everyone can afford... surely the community would benefit from more users and if someone's entrance to the community is buying a cheaper controller and then an emulator then that is for the greater good? or is there some feeling that real monome owners are a different class of citizen as they have paid for money to enter the club? I'm not accusing here, I'm just not seeing where your statement and assumption comes from...
    As for the support thing, I wasn't offering this product for $10, it was $3. The support doesn't have a monetary value on it, the support comes from the fact that I don't like to let people down and will do anything I can to address their issues if they have bought something from me. I have been writing software for 30 years now, and delivering top notch product is what has always motivated me and ensuring that any problems are addressed and dealt with, I just need to drink a few beers along the way :) I think I'm a bit too long in the tooth to start changing now, so I'm also not intending to just dump a load of stuff somewhere and then run away...
    Hopefully this goes some way to temper feelings here, but if not, I will just bid you farewell and continued enjoyment of your monomes, and remember, it's all about the music anyway (and the odd beer ;))

  • I have also added a link in my upcoming website update to the main monome apps site to my website directing people there to look for alternatives if they are not interested in the rest of my controller functionality.

  • FWIW I reckon i've made more from donations than I would if I'd have charged people for my apps. It's nice to get appreciation from people who actually find what I make useful.

    as for the $300+ I spent on (and no longer own an) ipad apps. most of them i wouldn't have paid for had I had a chance to use them first.

    had launchpad been around before i bought a monome i'm unsure if I would have gone down that road or not. It's hard to know.

    I built an arduinome which i never use now. it's just not the same. so in a way by going for the cheaper (emulation or clone) option i've ended up paying more in the long run.

    anyway thats my bit..

    however IF I owned a launchpad and didn't develop my own software I would want to know these things:

    - does it support serialosc? kinda looks like monomeserial from the screenshot(which is no longer developed for)

    - how does it handle variable brightness? a feature of the new monomes. which is being increasingly developed for..

    - does it support all the grid/led/row /col /map messages with serialosc?

    without these features it would not work for any of my apps.. and many others..

  • @sigabort

    I'll just go ahead and stop the flame war.

    It seems like both of us could have benefited from taking a bit more time in how we are presenting our ideas.

    Monome is not a super secret club only for those with the money to buy in. Being around here for a while I (and others) have seen patterns that can be problematic. I am quite sure you have the best of intentions, but in the future you may benefit from doing a bit more research. For example, @logritm mentioned you are working out the zeroconf stuff, which is actually being deprecated in the current spec.

    People around here can be really touchy about monetization built on top of our ideas, hopefully you can respect that.

  • @stevieraysean - the screen shots are from the last version, latest version supports serialosc - intention is to support all protcols/config mechanisms

    as for variable brightness, the user will be able to select an lp colour which a given brightness or band and assign to a colour on the lp (the orig LP only has 10 colours), e.g. 0-3 could be assigned to low green, 4-7 low amber, 8-11 hi green, 12-15 hi amber - these 4 colours have quite good brightness seperation on the orig LP. one the LPs it has 16 colours, so can be better mapped - at the end of the day, the user will be able to decide (this has not completed dev yet)
    yes, the next version supports all the messages documented in the protocol
    i'll look at any apps that don't work and update accordingly
    at the end of the day, it's still a work in progress but I'm committed to making it work with all existing stuff
    @alphanerd - agreed... and i can respect that now I understand more. I never had any intentions of making money out of other people's work, I just wanted to offer the users of my controller a way into the Monome world... Hopefully the solution I presented no longer upsets anyone.
    I have implemented the zeroconf stuff and am now moving on to autoconfig.. i like completeness :)
    fyi, the link on the autoconf page for the following diagram doesn't work:
    http://www.loop-party.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/autoconfig_diagram.jpg

  • You might be surprised at how many of us actively remove autoconfig from every app we download. It was a strong idea that caused more trouble than it was worth for the user.

    (hopefully, your support of it can be disabled...)

  • Yes, it can be disabled.

  • After the thought provoking comments made I've decided that I'll work on another build in the near future that'll just do the emulation without any other functionality offered by my LP product, at no cost of course ;)

  • Cheers mate!
    That would be really nice, indeed.

    Make it donation-ware, and once i have migrated to live9 /max 6 I will be more than happy to donate a few dollars if i get it running.
    But i really hate to buy something i couldn't even test before.

    BTW: Is your LP-scrip published yet?
    It seems like the one at your site (http://www.sigabort.co/m4l_lp.html) is stillt he old version???

  • There'll be a free version of my controller software with reduced features that will contain a cutdown version of the emulator also, so will be possible to use that for trial, once I get that up on the website...

    still working on the latest update at the moment - real life gets in the way sometimes! though it should be in the next few days... i've then got some work to do on the actual controller itself and then I'll start looking at the separate build, prob in 2-3 weeks time.

  • no worries!
    keep us informed, please.
    I really like to try your emulation once i upgraded.

  • resident stabber!

    i wanted to re-iterate my support for donation-ware!

  • heh, thanks for that :)
    It's a hard call sometimes... On the one hand I love writing code and playing around with music and would love to be able to do it full time for free.. I guess my experiment here is that I have a long term vision that I would like to be able to commit to - drawing some form of income from that makes it more realistic. My main error was not checking out the environment properly - as said, I never intended to cause any offence or profit from anybody directly, I just hadn't really appreciated the way in which the community operated - my main vision is the other stuff I work on, and I didn't really appreciate what for me was a little side development would have so much impact :). That said, over the last couple of weeks that I've been working on this, I've seen the incredible work that people have put in and the awesome ideas that have been implemented, as well as the passion of the members ;)
    I already have a number of ideas about how to integrate these things into my own productions, for which I will say thanks to all the app developers, and as I use your apps, beer tokens will be forthcoming....hopefully one day I can contribute my own app to the mix

  • I just popped into this thread to suggest that a free emulator-only version would resolve all the ethical conflicts of community vs commercialism, but is seems sigabort came up with that on his own already.

    Cheers!

  • I'm glad the feeling is more positive now :)

    I'm feeling all fired up now rather than somewhat trepiditious (i'm not sure if that's really a word, but I'm going with it....)

  • @tenh, from what I can understand, the serialosc 1.2 server provides info from connected Monomes and monitors physical connections - I can't see anyway of 'faking' an attached Monome by sending messages to it to update it's internal DB (pls correct if wrong) - I'm therefore going to need to mimic it's behaviour which will require a small change to the reference serialosc.maxpat patch so that the initial port setup can be sent to something I can hook into and process. this won't be too much work, but just want to make sure I'm not missing something with serialosc... thx

  • sigabort, you can advertise your own zeroconf/bonjour service and no need to modify serialosc.maxpat. there is a zeroconf-enabled version of serialosc.maxpat already although it's not the default. my 'pages' app does this to create virtual monomes, see the steps here on how to use the zeroconf serialosc maxpatch:

    http://monome.org/docs/app:pages

  • hi - thanks... already have zeroconf up and running, was just under the impression that the general move was towards serialosc - if zeroconf is still in general use then something I don't need to worry about at the mo - nice vid on the link btw :)

  • thanks :) serialosc does support zeroconf, it was actually the first discovery protocol, the osc protocol was added later. so it does both.

  • To clarify, the latest serialosc no longer requires zeroconf, because zeroconf-related installation problems were an ongoing support nightmare.

  • unfortunately i think bonjour/zeroconf is the only reasonable way to make virtual devices right now. you can't tell serialosc to include a virtual device to be advertised via the new discovery mechanism, and modifying serialosc.maxpat specifically for each app doesn't seem like the right way to go either. that leaves bonjour/zeroconf (which has always worked fine for me).

  • Thanks for all then background info

  • I'd normally advise running your emulator into Pages via the monomeserial protocol, and let that bridge over to serialosc apps. But, with this emulator supporting variable brightness (and monomeserial not), that may not be good enough.

  • I think for now, I'll stick with the zeroconf/bonour route, at least initially. I've been looking at the serialosc.maxpat reference implementation and the serialosc protocol and think I can create a 'virtualserialosc' patch that can hook into serialosc.maxpat with minimal changes that would allow virtual devices to be registered and used. I'll look into this in more detail in a few weeks once the rest of the stuff is sorted...

    thx!

  • @sigabort

    I'm so happy things have worked out like this! You should be happy to know that your presence also inspired a bunch of us to put work in to the grid emulator project that we have been putting off for some time!

  • thanks for that, I'm very glad they worked out amicably aswell.. looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with and looking forward to getting you guys to try out my stuff :)

  • Hi all, the latest version of LP+ including the Monome emulator is available for download at www.sigabort.co/m4l_lp. Still a few bits and pieces to do (major ones being the implementation of intensity, rotation, and an interim serialosc solution), but the rest is done.

    I'm sure there still some apps out there which may need a bit of tweaking, so please let me know and I'll get them addressed ASAP

    Have fun!!!


    cheers, Lee

  • hey @sigabort

    thx for the patch, i've downloaded it and it had very easily recognised my launchpad, wicked!

    But now, i'm a bit lost to make it work with other apps. It tried with SevenUp and mlr, and i can't get a way to make them work.

    can u explain me ?
    thx

  • After 0.3.1 didn´t work for me i tested the new Version and it works. Great Job so far.
    One thing that would be nice is dedicated Note mode. So you have the Matrix for sending buttonpresses to Plugins and a seperate notemoe for playing synths (if possible with more than one page and selecteble channel per page so you can control more than one synth at a time).

    Monome-Emulation works well, too as far as i can say for now.
    All in all a good Job, congrats for that