Pages 101

  • hey everyone, 1st post woo hoo! so a bit of background...
    im looking for a brief marathon of q&a w/r/t Pages. and, given that someone has time and patience, the api.
    EDIT: this is becoming a good idea. something to spur me into archiving my setup successes/failures so i dont have to do it twice
    so... any takers? i know you're out there. yeah... you.



    --------------- TRIAL, ERROR, AND EPIPHANY ---------------

    page #1 -post configuration celebration (launchpad session view for page 1)-

    ive got it going. im basically session view of a launchpad but on a prettier plane. i followed this guide to get me going.
    http://monome.org/community/discussion/16512/pages-beginner-setup-information

    -sc's attached of pages/ableton (also look and see if im good on serialosc. max 6 is normal, max5 is zeroconf)

    problem: nothing triggers when buttons pushed (routing rigamarole). when i hit space bar, the clips blink on grid as on LP, but button pushes do nothing

    i know its staring me in the face, but you know when you repeat something long enough the word changes and loses meaning and structure. in/out sounds more like "owwden" at this point. thanks to whoever contributes, ive lurked this place for years and this is the singular community online i feel is actually contributing to the betterment of people's art, thus their lives.

    ok, so i looked at the replies to the thread linked, and saw to not run arduinome serial and serialosc. so thats fixed, but everything else is the same. did the trick. i still do have many questions, so this will be a public log of my burgeoning devotion to Pages, hopefully with tips/tricks and input from monome.org gurus.

    page #2 -mlr activity with session view clips-

    i wanted a page to do as the title suggests.
    first, when looking around this pages wiki i saw clip skipper. checked out the version of pages with it (.35), awful. something else...
    http://code.google.com/p/monome-pages/w/list

    ive used live clip chopper with monomeemu forever, but it doesnt work with 9 (the emu, not LCC) so i went and grabbed r34, and added it.
    made a page for external application, setup prefix, i/o, etc. and it didnt work.
    dude from beginners guide above talks in the comments about monomeserial config in pages (free up 8000's for his mlr setup, as mlr defaults to 8000/8080). i dont know why, as port numbers are arbitrary, as long as no two devices use the same ports, but this did the trick. before i changed the monome serial settings, i was using random port numbers to no avail. dont ask me, i have no idea...

    set all clips to RAM in ableton, and there is absolutely no latency. i get strange glitches sometimes though when limiting the number of steps for a given clip. i do this manually most of the time, unless my hands are tied.
    HINDSIGHT: NOT TRUE! r34: the more i retriggered a clip segment, the more it seemed to jump, and "redraw" where the
    clip segments trigger. also, the pattern recorders are janky at best.
    SOLUTION (hindsight is 20/20): LCC r23 stable is perfect, as he says, nothing fancy (see: party v&) but this version had weird pattern recorders, so r24 (scroll down a couple of posts) is what i finalized for the page.
    http://monome.org/community/discussion/7379/m4l-app-live-clip-chopper/p4

    EDIT: i have been using a modified version of ml(ive)r for zero conf, external app page.
    PROBLEM: no led feedback, need to understand.
    http://monome.org/community/discussion/17430/mliver-zero-conf-and-pages.#Item_1
    -zip file here taken from being buried in a larger thread by a seriously amazing person for the zc modification, but it needs to be topside for MIDI feedback

    page #3 -the REDRUM in greasy reason-

    TWO POSSIBILITIES, CURRENTLY TRYING THEM OUT: 1. Drum-o-Box m4l device
    http://www.maxforlive.com/library/device/944/drum-o-box-apc40-step-sequencer
    2. make an abstracted redrum (probably this) out of the griddle pages
    page #4 -2 KONGS for 2 separate pseudo MPC devices (greasy reason)-

    insert progress here (still not here)

    page #5 - v&-

    everything is going well with party v&, but i still cant figure out how to pipe audio into it from a Live set. maybe im just not driving the van like i should be.

    NOTE: all pages except 1 and 2 are subject to rearrangement

    --------------- HARDWARE PLANS ---------------
    currently working with arduinome kit. (pics when finished)
    UPDATE: 2nd kit is finished and beautiful, minus an enclosure, see problem below

    HELP: anyone have any awesome enclosure ideas? thats all that needs done. ive seen wood, the prefab stuff (meh), lego (amazing), and edison's yellow children's briefcase which is child-like in its splendor.
    IDEAS: etch a sketch, NES (it'd just be a grey plastic box, so that kind of sucks), an sfiv fight stick (this kit's too big, think bibo's sparkfun board, for mine [sfiv se mad catz '09 w/sanwa JLF]) a lunch box (to small)
    - i have a prefab faceplate, so i really just need a box, but wat do a dood do?
    + my initial plan is to make it so that the faceplate is set inside the enclosure, as opposed to flush on top of it, bolted and ugly.

    2 grid pages config

    pg1: left grid (live session view) right grid (LCC r24)
    pg2: left grid (redrum) right grid (2 kong play time)
    pg3: both grids(?*) party van. left for sampling and effects, right for performance
    pg4: maybe get all of this going first...

    * is this possible?

    --------------- NOTES TO SELF ---------------
    dont neglect sleep
    make sure this is still fun by not succumbing to frustration through repetitive failures during trial and error
    keep in mind everything you've learned in the past 14 years, not just these new methods
    revert to a kid in the sandbox (GROSS!) when approaching a set
    update thread, give away all knowledge


    ***nothing is sacred, everything is fair game***

    550 x 379 - 54K
  • dang, welcome! glad to see you diving in and happy to hear you've solved a lot of issues already. it's unfortunately a complicated beast, but once it's set up i've found it pretty painless.

    check out the MIDIChannelerPage (create a GroovyPage first, then click the load button on the groovy page and load MIDIChannelerPage). it works well with drum racks/triggering one shots and has pattern recorders and a midi channel toggle built in.

    in terms of learning the API, and how to make your own groovy pages, i posted a bit of getting started info in the pages 2 thread recently. i'd say start there, look at some of the example pages, and try building something very simple to start with. i'll be happy to answer any questions about it!

    also, in case you missed it, the pdf manual has some info on the groovy api as well:

    http://pages.post-digital.net/pages-manual.pdf

  • @phortran
    hey hey, the man himself! ive been reading many of your posts throughout the day. good stuff, glad to see you're still discussing pages (a lot of your threads/comments i was working from were pretty dated. i look forward to asking you questions in specific.

  • absolutely, any time!

  • EDIT: this is coming along nicely. after a 3 week hiatus, i've finally isolated myself for a period of 72 hours, unencumbered by responsibility for a blink. not many new pages, but better apps and connections, more entertaining and fun problems

  • HUGE BREAKTHROUGH!

    page 1: clip launcher (not that lazy ass session launcher)
    page 2: mlrVST, on whatever the track may call for to re chop for instant slice mode (i suggest putting it on a return track and hit mute and rec at the same time so you dont have to deal with thru being disabled or trainwrecks. just make sure you have these things under control)

    EDIT: mlrVST does not save settings at all. i switched to the serialosc mlr aes, which is only a temporary fix, because i need slice mode and it doesnt have it. i really wish i could've had mlrVST, its so pretty, color coded, and had flawless execution w/ slice mode :(

    page 3: djfx (JUST THE FX patch, as i never was, nor will i ever be a dj... but one time, TONIGHT A DJ SAVED MY LIFE! que early 90s canned beats.
    EDIT: so, im using Myr's edit of this patch, hang on and ill find the link... light weight, multiple instances (just vary prefixes for each page/instance).
    http://monome.org/community/discussion/6419/max4live-dj64-effects/p1
    (myr's post about halfway down [YOU'RE THE MAN, MYR!])

    whelp, thats my preliminary performance pamphlet. im going to wait until 11am cst, and two weeks to continue, affording myself enough time to get the south park rpg safely away and beaten so as not to distract from the next pamphlet...

    production pamhlet: 1. drum sequencer 2. clip cropping w/o a computer 3. you tell me. oh, a page specifically for recording vinyl and cassette clips that have spent the next two weeks getting distressed by heater vents and UV rays on the old dashboard while i find out the legend of The Stick of Truth!

    psst: im proud of myself, this was possibly the most patient and frustrated ive ever been. last night i boomed out and decided to go through 60+ pieces of software, trying to break them so i could exclude them from potentialities. some broke, some broke my computer.

    heres something weird, last night my arduinome switched to left. the cord was topside, but for some reason, its left now, and regardless of what i do, its left. weird, wild stuff.

    OH YEAH: 2nd arduinome kit is in the bag! all i need is an awesome idea for an enclosure, and i cant think of one.

    SO, i am moving this to open, because over the past 6 or so years, under various names and states of dissociation, obsession, and determination, the open board has actually helped me. its so fucking awesome that you weirdos are as weird as i am here. ive gotten to know all of you so well, so go fly a kite.

  • lol!! congrats sir! glad to hear you're pleased.

    re: arduinome went left, i'd guess an app at some point sent a /sys/rotation message to it. you can undo this probably in 2 ways:

    * i think there's a serialosc preferences file somewhere you can delete
    * send another /sys/rotation command

    the last one you'll probably want to set up a max patch or something to do that, but there could also be a monome test patch that lets you set this!

  • HEY PHORTRAN!

    gotta question for ya...

    i want to make a page for my korg nano kontrol. i want it in pages so i dont have to set midi controls for each live session (i do realize that i could just make the default set have this and not worry about it, but i want a clean ableton). so, what groovy template should i use to get me started? also, i have the documentation and your google docs page has more info, but are there any youtube vids or guides for simple things to build my knowledge base? EDIT: im not being lazy here, ive done some research, but i need a recommendation on where to begin... not clueless, just a bit lost and whelmed (not overly).

    thank you for being a cheerleader during the past couple weeks of trial, error, and frustration.

  • hey man, awesome to hear you diving in!

    so this concept will work but it's a little counterintuitive maybe. if you just want to control midi for now, create a groovy page to get the empty template. find this part of the code:


    void cc(int num, int val, int chan) {
    ccOut(num, val, chan)
    }


    put two slashes (//) in front of the ccOut line to comment it out and make it not run. add a log line to see the data coming in:


    void cc(int num, int val, int chan) {
    log("num: " + num + " val: " + val + "chan: " + chan)
    }


    enable the korg nano kontrol midi input device in both midi menus and click run on the groovy page. now click log window and you should see your midi messages coming in.

    you can use this cc function to intercept midi cc commands, and there's similar functions for other types of events:

    note - midi notes from a keyboard.
    clock - midi clock signals from ableton, this will get called 96 times per measure, so if you do something every 6th clock tick for example it will happen at 16th notes.
    press - monome/grid press events.

    hope this helps you get started.

  • @phortran

    this is going to be fun. since the nano kontrol has 4 scenes, im going to make 4 pages for different things to knob and slide.
    ok, so here's what i did (not much): i wrote down all of the note numbers and where they correspond on the nano. the min/max values are 0 and 127, and i grabbed the play, stop, etc. info as well.

    so whats my next step?
    im sorry that im presupposing that you actually want to guide me through this, but i cant help but think this will be fun on your part as well. ive been using ableton for 8 years, and a friend of mine decided he wanted to learn. during the first "class," i watched his eyes light up at some of the things i take for granted w/r/t manipulative elasticity... he was like a 5 year old kid at a theme park meeting Batman. it was fun.

    anyway, whatever i do until i get to Pages 201 (101 ends when i finalize my performance and production setups) will be posted here, so i am trying to give back everything i can, even just for shits and giggles at all the dumb shit i do, correct, and yell victory about.

    so here's the plan: if you help me through setting up the nano kontrol by homework and exercises like your previous post, i will take that knowledge and do this for my bcr2000, now thats a fun beast, also has scenes for pages.

    im determined to learn this process. for years now, ive been gradually eliminating aspects of my setup/sound/hardwares that i consider to contribute to an "out of the box" aesthetic... not the good kind (thinking outside the box), but rather buy stuff, plug in, INSTANT PRODUCER. groovy pages is the apex of my current technical plateau.

    so, think it over. the help youve given up to this point, and the contribution to my public Pages log has been more than enough as it currently stands. but hey, you could get a kick out of seeing me run around this hamster wheel a few times.

  • oh, i'm happy to help, like you described w/ your friend, i get excited when other people get excited about this stuff!

    i don't by any means wish to dissuade you from your course, however, i have to say i think using the korg w/ Ableton is going to be much easier w/out pages in the middle. you might look for some user-created python scripts for the nano kontrol, you might find something even cooler!

    i'm running a midi keyboard into pages in the 'midi loop' page as i want the device to more tightly integrate w/ what the monome itself is doing. certainly ableton will be more powerful/mappable/easier to modify if what i was doing didn't integrate with what the monome was doing.

    having said all that, i think where pages can shine w/ the groovy pages is when you want to create interaction with midi devices and monomes.. so think along the lines of the nano kontrol changing parameters on a monome app, and possibly forwarding that to ableton as well, or otherwise using the monome to filter/control the nano output through pages.

    give me a little more of an idea of what you're trying to build and i can try to point you in the right direction with code examples. i would also recommend trying out a bunch of the simple groovy pages if you haven't and experiment with modifying their code. i think GridStep is a good one to mess with, also SimpleClipLauncher for some ableton integrations.

  • ok, so my first half of Pages 101 is complete. for real this time. all of the above ordeals have been surpassed and now look silly, especially since ive been using a lot of this software since 2009, and ableton since 2006. i just finished my preliminary setup, so here goes...
    1: clip launcher
    2: mlrv2.3 with soundflower piping audio like a Bossman, Douglas Bossman.
    3: djfx myr edit

    only 3? yes, but the fx are many and by unlocking individual pipes to work with, there will be more.

    on to business...

  • @phortran

    ok: 1. thank you.
    2. what i really want out of this exercise is not to use the nano kontrol with pages. what i want to do is acclimate myself to the groove so i can incorporate all the 90s gear i have in a footlocker into my production regime w/r/t max patches and monome devices. all of the max patches and m4l stuff i use is pretty performance based, but im tired of clicking around ableton's environment when i dont have to.

    but, i dont really want a clutter of midi mapping wasting my time, when i could be hoarding physical media.

    the nano kontrol is just easy. like you suggested, i should work with some of the easier grooves, but i should also work with easier gear. ive had the remote script for the nano since it came out. thats not my problem, my problem is that ive only been working with this system since Feb 18. everything else before was ready made, and packed with filler.

    so, im leaving you this link here, because it pertains to my public log of failure and triumph, but when you get a chance, check it out. it solved so many of my problems and it only took a month to find it, and years of just not trying out of some misguided sense that this performance/production system was out of reach, and too obtuse.

    modded soundflower, works with mlrv2.3, cool stuff
    http://lublog.tuttoeniente.net/archives/399/record-multi-track-skype-group-call-on-os-x

  • certainly, if you have some piece of gear and want to make it do something i'll be happy to help provide some sample code. let's try to keep it within what pages was sort of intended for -- so at its base should be some sort of monome app i hope!! :) and then we'll incorporate other stuff into it.

  • ok, well party van would be a pretty sweet app to try it out with, since it has buttons, knobs, and sliders. let me draw up an idea for the arrangement of all of its functions. i need a couple days to rest, i broke my brain.

    but yeah man, my last producer crutch is ableton. ill get there, but for now, its the best there is. you know, despite my blossoming open source zealotry.

    let me ask you this, is there a graphic way of creating pages? i mean, like more hands on. a learn function or something.

  • using another existing app isn't exactly what i was getting at, more like creating something new. i don't think groovy pages are going to be very helpful with external applications either unfortunately. you'd be better off modifying it directly in max/msp.

    no graphical environment, it's really meant as a quick scripting language to build / prototype ideas, really more like creating your own page type in pages. i've since found it much more convenient than making actual pages as i can usually hack together what i'm thinking quickly and easily tweak/modify it.

    the use case for it is fairly narrow though -- when it makes sense to create a page in pages to do whatever custom behavior you want to do. this really only makes sense when you're mostly writing logic for a monome app and then maybe incorporating a bit of midi from another device. using it as a bridge between hardware and another app may work out but i don't really see it as being ideal.

  • thats pretty awesome, so you're saying that when you throw up a groovy page, youre sketching. i like that idea. ive been so concerned with finding an ideal, condensed, package that i can load up as easily as a live session. can you give me examples to think about so i can find jump start ideas about situations or common problems that groovy pages would bridge?

    im glad you made yourself clear. thats exactly what i want to accomplish, be working, run into a wall, and think my way out of it. its funny, i was actually reading many of the utilities' descriptions here this morning, trying to preempt the problems that led to their creation. i grabbed a few, like the bridge and the base. anyway, i appreciate your help, and when the lightbulb's above my head, ill bring gusto.