monomulator for tenori-on

  • would it be possible to write a max app to use a tenori-on like a monome? some midi to osc trick? seems possible give what is being done here:

    http://pyrolator.blogspot.com/2007/11/i-am-using-different-midi-controller.html

    thoughts? this would really justify a tenori-on for me. ... best of both worlds...

    also, i am willing to throw down some paypal action to see this happen.

    thanks
    ryan.

  • tenori-on prolly just outputs note on/off messages on sixteen midi channels. these could easily be translated as button presses to go into a monome app. in the other direction, light on/off messages could be translated as note messages going to the tenori-on. the only thing i'd worry about would be timing. there might be some lag if the tenori-on tries to send/recv 256 note messages via midi.

    i would say bean would prolly be the guy to talk to about this. he's written some great monome utility patches along these lines and he owns a tenori-on. so he might be able to tell you if he's tried it, if it'll work, if he'd be willing to work on it, etc.

    failing that, i'd gladly give it a shot. but i don't have a tenori-on to test for you.

  • The tenori-on is a self-contained, closed system. It can output MIDI according to how the internal software behaves, and a Max app could be written to interpret that data in some form, but it ends there.

    You can't:

    • change the behavior of the internal software
    • send data back to the tenori on, specifically, to tell it what LEDs to light

    ... which is sort of the whole point of the monome. It is one thing to route a set of buttons to do something, but without feeding data back to the leds, the system is inherently dumb. A one way street. You can't determine the behavior of the buttons, creating radio groups, check boxes, momentaries, etc... OR ANYTHING. You just have a grid of buttons and there are any number of products that can do that.

  • > i would say bean would prolly be the guy to talk to about this.

    I've thought about it. Although I do expect that Stretta is right, and it's probably not possible. The Tenori-On can receive some degree of MIDI info, although this is primarily tailored to its hard-wired functionality, and seems not do things like light arbitrary LEDs.

    It's certainly something I plan on poking into a bit more. But short of a firmware hack (which is out of my league) it most likely remains a pipe dream.

  • ahhh... i didn't realize you couldn't send data back to the tenori in order to light led's. obviously there's a fundamental difference between the two and i realize that the tenori would light each led as you pressed it (instead of waiting for a message that says to light it, as with the monome). but i guess i was thinking that perhaps there's a "local off" mode where it would transmit midi for each button press, but not light the led until it received a note on mesg (an unfair assumption, admittedly). that would be great but if there is no such option then you're correct, a monome emulator for the tenori-on is not possible.

  • Furthermore, while the tenori on sends MIDI notes from the sequencer, I don't believe there is a mode that allows a 1:1 unique MIDI note assignment from the buttons. There are 128 MIDI notes. There are 256 buttons. Yes, in theory, there are ways to get around this (using two MIDI channels, dividing up the remaining buttons to other messages, etc...) but the fact of the matter is the Tenori-on wasn't designed with this use in mind.

    Even if there were a firmware hack that allows lighting arbitrary LEDs, MIDI is a supremely bad protocol for this communication. For a number of reasons.

  • yup, looks like yamaha is retarded on this one.

    sigh..

    ah well, monome it is for now.

  • > i would say bean would prolly be the guy to talk to about this.

    Well, here I am. Stretta is right, the Tenori-On is not an open system and after a while I gave up writing max-patches for it. As soon I get my Monome (hopefully in August) I will sell it (anyone?).
    I even had contact to the engineer from Yamaha for a while, who wrote most of the software. It is NOT possible to switch the LED´s from an input other than the machine itself, which makes it very hard to write interesting patches , because there is no real feedback on what is happening.
    The Tenori-On is a great machine as a standalone and if it would be 10% of its price it would be a great educational tool for kids.
    In the meantime i started working on a Max/MSP patch for the Monome - I not even have one, and I can`t wait - but this makes so much more sense to me....
    best wishes
    pyrolator