anyone interested in a 10h board order?

  • I will probably order a few copies of the 10h board which orangesunshine posted on his thread, sometime within a few weeks.

    I thought it might be a good idea to see if anyone else wanted in on this order, although I'll be doing it regardless - so no worries if not.

    Let's say about 40 USD per board. That's probably pretty close - the boards are $33 plus whatever tax and shipping to me, and then some shipping to whomever else from here...

  • I'm interested. Might go in for a bunch of boards if thats OK. Are we talking just the logic board or LED parts?

  • there will probably be a better option than 33each if there are enough interested people.

    also, for 33each you could panelize, which advanced circuits allows for the deal, but you can't get them scored, so we'd need to dremel cut them apart.

  • Just a heads up.. I'm having a bit of an issue with button press latency with the standard logic board.

    @tehn How long is it supposed to take after a button press, before you can press it again? It takes close to a full second with mine. In the test program, even if I tap a button it stays 'pressed' for almost a second...

    There is likely some sort of issue, but I can't figure out what it is... Any ideas?

  • I'm up for a board or two. They would be great for a "master controller" for some applications.

    So, count me in.

  • are you using a standard logic board and pre-programmed chip?

    it sounds like the fuses aren't programmed, so the firmware is running at 4mhz instead of 16mhz.

  • I'm in - I love that lil guy.

  • To clarify, we are talking about the button board in a 4x4 layout.

    I suppose this could get out of hand if Brian does not have enough logic boards to cover people's kit needs.

    So I am glad that you are keeping an eye on this thread, B!!

    Sounds like in a week or two we'll just see where everyone is at and then re-evaluate as needed in terms of where to order from, and whether we might need to do a little run of logic boards too.

    I'm still happy to place the order and handle the re-shipping and $ collection.

    Also happy to have Brian's (+ whomever else's) advice as this develops...

  • Sounds like a good money saver to tile out the boards. 60 sq in. was the size limit I believe. (33each)

    so 4 would easily fit on a board. BAM, cut the price in 1/4

  • I definitely be in for at least one, it would be a better fit (or at least feel) than the 16 button keypad I've been planning on using in my monome-kit box. I'd probably be in for two.

    My big question though, is the buttons themselves: would this involve purchasing a full keypad kit from the next run just for the rubber bits? Are there separate silicone pads left over from the last run or figured into the next?

  • @tehn Thanks! It was actually running at 1 mhz! I rolled my own pcb for the logic board too as I wanted to get a crash course in the dev-environments and all that so that maybe later on I can modify the firmware and whatnot as I need to. It was likely the only way to motivate my lazy *ss to learn the software...

    I ordered 10 boards and I have only 8 sets of buttons... Though the pcb company only sent me 4 in the initial shipment, they promised to send me the rest. So if they make good on my order, I will have 2 copies of the 10h button board with a black soldermask...

  • i need to check on quantity, but we do have some "defect" keypads that have small specks of dust, etc, that functionally are ok. i'll decide what to do once we see how many people are going to attempt the project.

  • i have been trying to do this with the sparkfun stuff...i have all the leds soldered but using my arduino and some shift registers has left me confused...plus the latency of the button presses is large....

    i think i read somewhere that the bounce back on these keypads(sparkfun) is the down fall, no room to fit diodes?

    i would like to get on this bandwagon if possible... are we just talking pcbs? or logic boards too...I would need to get the logic board.

  • logic kits are $110 everything included and pre-programmed. we'll be ready to start shipping orders at the end of the month.

    you could also just wire your own on a breadboard.

  • tehn,

    is there any programming which needs to be done to the smaller chips? or is it only a concern for the big atmega?

  • atmega is the only chip that is programmable, so that's it.

  • cool

    in that case I may ask if you'd be willing to repeat the "program my chips for me, keep a few for yourself" routine...

    I'll email you when the time comes to see if you're OK with that

    And @ everyone else: that may mean that I could potentially have two atmega chips programmed with the normal pot firmware, which I could potentially sell to some kit-builder and ship with their 10h board.

    There is the chance I'd like to hang on to them though - but if that interests someone, say so and we'll see.

  • each led board does one 40h 4x4 pad? put me in for 4 if you can get a big enough order to get the price down a bit.

    (I was at a craft fair recently and someone had taken surplus button boards just like what you're making but probably not decoupled buttons, roughly the same size - and had made candle-holders out of them. They were beautiful - the guy selling them had no idea what I was talking about.)

  • I'm potentially interested in two sets of buttons and maybe a logic board for an instrument I designed a while back that I'd really like to prototype.

    Are we talking new style buttons or old style ones just our of curiosity?

  • This is old style buttons.

    I suppose that we'll need to pick a "deadline" soonish for interested parties, and decide on some issues like $ and timeframe.

    I'm going to sleep on it and try to make a suggestion in the AM

  • Sounds like a plan.

  • How about next monday, the 19th, as a loose timeframe to start thinking about gathering some $$ and placing an order?

    That means I'll need to see about copying out the layout into a 4x4 tile. I don't imagine that's too hard but feel free to volunteer, anyone.. ;)

    A quick look through the thread - looks like we'd be covered by 3 sets of 4 = 12 total boards, depending on what c1t1zen means by "might be interested in a bunch"

    by tiling it I guess it's more like ~$9 each plus shipping

  • I'll buy 4 from this run. I have a robot idea.

  • are you cool with receiving the uncut board of all four? (u- cut) ;)

  • getting them cut will add substantial expense. as long as there is sufficient clearance between boards a dremel will do the trick.

    so yeah, i'm good for it.

    33each.com is going to be the best bet for quick turn. check the maximum sq. inches.

  • sq inches looked OK for this

    I don't mind cutting them for people who only want one or two

    but I figured since c1t1zen wants four, that I could get away with being lazy ;)

  • Yeah send me uncut if it'll help costs...It'll be the rare like a sheet of uncut baseball cards. ;)

  • damn.. i just wrote a long text and got signed out before posting it.. so here i go again :P

    hi everyone!
    first of all: i'm sooo happy i've stumbled across the monome just two days ago.. had a hard time trying to find some sleep since then! i NEED this!!! :) incredible work& concept tehn!! and keeping it open and free... i'm speechless!

    back on topic:
    during my research i discovered this link, how to create custom pcb at home using a laser printer and an iron.. :)
    http://thomaspfeifer.net/direct_toner_pcb.htm
    maybe someone wants to try that..

    as i'm cronically short of money i'll have to build my first monome by myself. (although i'm already saving for a 256.. just 1 or 2 years to go *sigh*)

    i think i've found every component needed, the one thing that is missing are the silicon(?) buttons.. could you tell me more about them? it's really hard to find any information about keypads/buttons or whatever the correct name is.. (i'm german ;))

    greets from berlin,
    chilli

    ps. keep up the great work!!

  • these particular buttons are custom made for monome. so if you want these exact ones you'll have to arrange with tehn.

    there are buttons available from sparkfun which are similar but bigger. I read of some problem with them but can't say for sure

  • I'm in for 4 @ $9ea - actually tiled would be fine unless it's really hard to cut them or something. I have a Dremel tool, table saw, chop saw - last 2: overkill or can they be used for this?

  • dremel or bandsaw/scrollsaw is good for hacking pcbs.

    we'll have to reconsider selling keypads alone if there is sufficient demand. maintaining stock is the main problem.

    if you'd like to etch your own boards, i'd highly suggest using normal pushbuttons and leds. etching the star-pattern at home will be a bit tricky.

  • If I knew that I'd be able to acquire two 4x4 pads of the 40h buttons, then I would be good for 2.

  • since it seems that it is time to start thinking of a definite number, i need to clarify my posting above.

    i'd be in for 2, please. (i left it unclear earlier, by saying one or two). so, two it is.

    thanks,

  • So how much might the pads, diodes, leds, boards run total? I'd still like 2. Maybe an extra 2 if they're cheap enough

  • Hi,
    I would love 4 uncut as well, if it's really is @$9 for board.
    Thanks, Asaf

  • I'm going to up to 4 as well. Should keep me plenty busy.

  • some thoughts--

    the demand for this small kit is getting beyond what i originally thought. seems like we're at thirty something. the potential problem at this point is satisfying keypad demand. also i doubt longjohns was hoping for the task of distribution on this scale, and it'd be double given that kelli and i would have to distribute keypads somehow.

    so the first issue is we may need to get an additional order of pads from our manufacturer (lead time possible). second is why shouldn't we just order the boards and bundle them?

    it'd be $25-30 (per keypad+pcb), plus shipping (our ups rates are getting pretty inexpensive.) that's how sparkfun prices their identical kit (the comparison doesn't stand, however).

    let me know if this is still interesting. "normal" kits will be ready at the end of the month, by the way.

  • If the count is at ~30 boards, I am still willing to handle it. However, I can also understand that coupled with the button supply issue it might be easier for you guys to handle as a more "formal" 10h kit.

    Which I am also more than happy to wait for..

    If that was the case (10h official kit) then I'd also be up for paying the extra $$ to have you bundle in all the components too. (remember probably lots of people would need to hit you up for at least programmed atmegas??)

    i.e. a 40h kit with only one pad and a smaller pcb.

    again I am willing to go either direction

  • and as a question:

    the main reasons I am attracted to 2 10h's are:

    -setting them up easily on separate MIDI ports, with only monomeserial
    -totalling 8 encoders (between 4 total boards)

    however, it's starting to look like getting all 8 encoders to function as ONE device, while all 4 pad arrays function as SEPARATE devices, will require max programming

    Is that correct, and if so then maybe I will want to re-evaluate what parts I really need. If I'm going to have to go max, then I may already be covered on logic boards, and just need 2 pads, 2 10h boards, plus chips etc.

    Ok I just confused myself I think ;)

  • What are people's plans for the logic end of things with these? I think orangesunshine did his own logic board, am i right? would the 40h logic kit be overkill for this? Is the logic end significantly simpler for a 10h?

  • the bundled kit is very practical, as it might get to be an issue with people scrambling to get button pads for their bare 10h PCBs. since they'd be the same size as the old style button, it makes sense to go in an "official" manner with the kit. It sure does save a headache when all is considered.

    thats just my two cents.

    as per the logic end of this, modifying the design for the logic board as it stands now to "fit" the 10h wouldn't be too much of an issue (although, i haven't the know-how to do this, beyond simply changing the pin headers). possibly, there could just be a simple design and firmware change to allow for more some extra analog inputs, or digital inputs not built into the 4x4 matrix? at the very least, downsizing the logic boards to accommodate the 10h would seemingly save on some costs or components. but then again, the small size difference may not warrant a change in cost.

    beats me... if all else fails, the normal 40h logic kits would work fine, and max patches could easily be written to "ignore" the section of the matrix which isn't being used (the non-used 48 button between the 40h and the 10h).

  • thanks for the feedback.

    redesigning the logic board wouldn't save too much space-- everything is needed. if people want to add more encoders, etc, it'd make more sense to interface the keypad with an arduino/etc.

    bundling parts-- basically that would just be diodes. to a point, if you're going to have to order leds or some other components, it's not much more to order $1 worth of diodes?

    the logic kit is totally separate.

    it'd also be relevant to design the keypad pcb to be tile-able, so a 4x8 could be easily wired. a 4x16 could also be wired, but it'd require some software hacking to make it work sensibly with any apps.

  • ooooh sounds interesting folks. I may be in. Sorry its been a while since posting on th boards I have been traveling alot.

  • is the next batch of 40h kit parts already placed?

    I see your point about the logic kit completeness - though if we all need to buy individual logic kits for this 10h project it may impact the balance of your 40h kit sets (?)

    also see the point about just buying the diodes - no worries there

    I guess I'm looking to you, tehn, for direction. If you decide that it will be easier for you to handle a "complete" 10h keypad kit, then I'll wait for that

    If you don't want to do that, but can somehow accomodate everyone's needs for buttons - then I'm happy to take care of the pcb order and distribution of those.

    In either case it looks like probably most people will be in the position of having to buy logic kits from the next batch.

  • kelli and i will talk about it.

    we have everything in stock for the kits except for the keypads, and there is the pre-programming to do as well.

  • It's a bit tricky since you probably don't need to have 1:1 on logic and keypads. Since imagine not everyone would actually use them to build a straight 10h. Perhaps you could just arrange for the keypads and then worry about the logic boards as necessary?

  • It would be cool to have 4 4x4 boards. I was thinking I'd use them with the pads from my existing 40h kit but if another run of pads is in the works I could wait and get both together and keep my 40h kit intact. Logic board not really necessary but it opens up some interesting possibilities. I'm thinking of combining some buttons with some stribe strips...

  • Just a quick question,
    Would a 4X16 tile up require any modification of the logic board or just software patches updates ?

    And on a different note, I might be able to use a CnC machine in the near future for a low cost and right now I'm searching for an affordable source of aluminum so if all goes well I might be able to help making faceplates for this project and for other kit buyers who still need of one.

    Have a nice day all.

  • 4x16 wouldn't need logic changes, just particular grid wirings.

  • sorry for the delay. i'll talk to kelli about this and try to figure something out.

  • Wow... it's pretty cool to see that much interest in the 10h boards!!

    I ordered two extra boards thinking that would likely fill demand. I finally received the shipment of the remaining boards, so if anyone already has monome buttons and is in a rush to get started, I have two spare button boards with black solder mask.

    I'd like to get $40 for both of them (or $20 each) plus shipping (which won't be much unless I'm shipping overnight to Madagascar or something to that effect).

    I used the standard logic board with the button board.. You can wire up to 4 10h boards together to make any tetris shape you could desire... Though the computer will only recognize it as the shape of a 40h. If you just wire a 10h it will be recognized as the top left corner of a 40h. Some programs, MLR 2, will simply recognize a 16x4 configuration as a square... You would need to modify the already built max programs to properly address the buttons. It would be fairly trivial though...

    In other news my box-smithing abilities have progressed significantly. I wanted to craft something that was light-weight and had rounded corners so that my paws could wrap nicely around it and mash the buttons on the top with my thumbs. I tried various methods of melting plastic around modeling clay (which failed miserably), and ended up using plastic fiber-"glass" to form the box. The finnish on the fiberglass is a bit rough and my brain is probably still recovering from all the fumes, but the box itself meets all my requirements (lightweight, durable, etc).