tintinnabulome

  • Please check the tilt functionality, I dont have tilt on my monome..

  • oh my !

  • Wow, this looks really incredible. I'll have to try to explore this new version sometime this week. Thanks!

    Oh, and, yes, P

  • Okay, I've completed my second tintinnabular meditation, "Winter Sun Setting." As a video meditation, here it is on Vimeo:

    http://vimeo.com/groups/monome/videos/3673157

    I was disappointed in the sound quality on Vimeo. Also, it is cut down from the full track that is just over 6 minutes. So here is a good quality version on soundcloud:

    http://soundcloud.com/tetramorph/winter-sun-setting

    And here is where I talk a little bit about it on my blog:

    http://tetramorph.blogspot.com/2009/03/winter-sun-setting.html

    I will post again with technical tintinnabulome description, for those for whom that would be helpful.

    Please let me know what you all think, as this is my first attempt at real ambient music.

    @occular, thanks for your continued work in developing this lovely app. Love the pic and font, although I can only open it in preview: it doesn't show up when I open the app in max. I'm a bit confused as to your new stuff, so I'll post more to you later, when I've had time to try to digest it.

    Thanks, all. Peace

  • thanks for the nice words, I'm glad you like it !
    @tetramorph: I've checked the picture issue,
    please try to reload the patch I've just updated.

  • Very nice, thanks occular. I'll make sometime today to check this out.

    Any chance of looking at that arp/add note thing i mentioned up the page?

    Take care and thanks again.

  • Wow!!!! This is super cool and working great. Definitely becomes a more realtime/interactive powerhouse.

    More thanks.

  • awesome! respect.
    takes a few minutes ( ... ) to have the new structure ready while playing, but after that ... i'm amazed! possibilities without end... it's so musician.
    take my first take with big THANKS! :-)

    http://soundcloud.com/elektra/tintingerine

  • Description: here is a brief description of my track posted above, for those for whom this kind of description is helpful:

    Synced v.0.85 with Logic at 30 bpm.
    Key: c ionian (no tilt this time)

    three columns only:

    up/notes of the second degree triad (Dm)/-12/0range/whole note/50/100

    up/notes of the first degree triad (C)/0/1range/down/3/8notes/20/64

    dn/notes of the thrid degree triad (Em)/+12/2range/up-dn/1/6note/15/64

    By having the lowest triad different from the tonic (Dm instead of C) I tried to obscure the tonality a bit. By setting the bpm so low and then setting the rhythm in a ratio of 1 to 3/8 to 1/6 I tried to obscure a sense of hard "beat" - going for something more like breath but not as random as wind chimes.

    Hope someone finds that helpful. Please let me know how you've set up some of the great tracks that have been produced out there -- it helps me to learn.

    ________
    I still haven't had time to look at occular's latest build. But it is already producing great stuff, so I am looking forward to when I have some more solid monome time.

    @elektra - nice track on soundcloud! I would love a descriptive break down. How are you getting that nice little treble sound?

  • @tetramorph
    sorry, i only play around randomly, trying to remember the different possibilities on knobs. not able to give detailed description. 4 columns/sounds on 4 midi channels. i used two tonal sounds from mopho (bass) and speckie (organ like), the clicker fx sound comes from blofeld and a short snare from spectralis to get a clear rhythm. then i changed rate and scale while playing. recording in ableton live, few fx.

    interesting is the 'preset' function, but can't find out how it works. with these function it might be possible to recover the process (?).

  • thanks for the kind words !

    @elektra:
    Do you read the doc.pdf file attached in the patch folder ?
    The presets works easy: the preset page (top button 8) has two functions. If you hold the 8th button and press one of 49 slots, you store a preset. If you just on preset page without holding it, and press one of 49 preset slots, you recall preset. If you are happy with your presets, you just save it all in XML file.. you can read it again later into the patch.

    @dadek:
    about the arp/add note issue, I think its beyond my possibilities at the moment, I'm still Max beginner. I can go thru the patch till some level, but I don't understand the patch completly. I can guess where to look for the bug, but I think this could be done only by stretta.. however I'll take a look at that issue ;-)

  • maybe we should rename this topic to something like
    new app: tintinabulome ?
    This should be more clearly to other people I think..

  • ... or simply tintinabulome as 'new' is relative and fleeting

  • @occular: shame on me, didnt see your doc file. thx for help!

  • As of this post the title of this forum thread is simply "tintinnabulome."

    The original title had been "Brainstorm for app: 'tintinnabulome'." The community has made it clear that this thread no longer counts as a "brainstorm."

    Tintinnabulome is a usable, musically versatile application in distributed development by the monome community. (Yippee!)

    Thanks to Stretta for his grounding work on this app, to occular for his on-going development, and to all who aided in the "brainstorm" that began this application.

    Peace

  • Awesome! I'm playing with Live 6 and tintinnabulome 0.93. At some point the note duration goes off, it always plays for 1/16th even with rate set to 1 bar. Is it a bug or is there a way around it? It's also on version 0.85, but I could restore it by keeping the button down for a bit.

    Here it only plays the first note with correct duration, then cuts it off.

    Any tips?

  • @AA: I know this issue too, it seems to be a bug..

  • Is 'homophonic' broken in 0.93 or am I just not getting how it's implemented in the new layout?

    Thanks.

  • hello, tin looks amazing and is one of my favourite apps. however, i triedto use the tilt function and got a kernelpanic on OS X.
    aside this i just can´t get t to syn to ableton, worked the version before.


    thanks keep up the good work.

    hr

  • hello again, i´m getting several kernel panics while using the latest tin.

    i alow myself to post the errors, i think it´s related to this app because theres the FTDI Driver mentioned in the errors.

    Wed Mar 25 23:32:48 2009
    panic(cpu 1 caller 0x001A9C68): Kernel trap at 0x005a05de, type 14=page fault, registers:
    CR0: 0x8001003b, CR2: 0x676f6c33, CR3: 0x0109a000, CR4: 0x00000660
    EAX: 0x676f6c2f, EBX: 0x00020000, ECX: 0x00000000, EDX: 0x047ba950
    CR2: 0x676f6c33, EBP: 0x5c50fef8, ESI: 0x07759100, EDI: 0x00000000
    EFL: 0x00010202, EIP: 0x005a05de, CS: 0x00000008, DS: 0x047b0010
    Error code: 0x00000000

    Backtrace (CPU 1), Frame : Return Address (4 potential args on stack)
    0x5c50fcc8 : 0x12b4f3 (0x45b13c 0x5c50fcfc 0x1335e4 0x0)
    0x5c50fd18 : 0x1a9c68 (0x464700 0x5a05de 0xe 0x463eb0)
    0x5c50fdf8 : 0x1a038d (0x5c50fe10 0x481f300 0x5c50fef8 0x5a05de)
    0x5c50fe08 : 0x5a05de (0xe 0x48 0x5c500010 0x400010)
    0x5c50fef8 : 0x422e29 (0x7759100 0x0 0x1 0x0)
    0x5c50ff48 : 0x3de485f3 (0x7a85f40 0x3de49b74 0x0 0x0)
    0x5c50ff78 : 0x13eed2 (0x75e0000 0x0 0x1a336f 0x49b7410)
    0x5c50ffc8 : 0x1a017c (0x0 0x0 0x1a30b5 0x730d208)
    Backtrace terminated-invalid frame pointer 0
    Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
    com.FTDI.driver.FTDIUSBSerialDriver(2.2.10)@0x3de45000->0x3de4bfff
    dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOSerialFamily(9.3)@0x7ae000
    dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOUSBFamily(3.2.7)@0x596000
    com.apple.iokit.IOUSBFamily(3.2.7)@0x596000->0x5befff

    BSD process name corresponding to current thread: kernel_task

    Mac OS version:
    9G55

    Kernel version:
    Darwin Kernel Version 9.6.0: Mon Nov 24 17:37:00 PST 2008; root:xnu-1228.9.59~1/RELEASE_I386
    System model name: MacBook2,1 (Mac-F4208CA9)

    well, thanks for this app, can´t stop playing around and the presets are a really great addition to this application. i love to switch presets with different melodies going on.

    cheers, hr

  • hello,

    @dadek: homo-mode should work, you can access it on page 3, where you switch rate.

    @herrreinholt: huh, ok. I'll take a look at this issue..

    @everyone: As I dont have tilt on my monome, could you check, if tilt works or get broken too ?

    thx, Roman

  • Hm, another thing I forgot to mention: FEATURE REQUEST for 0.93!

    Wouldn't it be great to have all the controls saved on the XML file, instead of just the notes and arpeggiation modes? I'm mostly interested in being able to save the channels and MIDI ports, and maybe the clock status so I don't have to change them every time I open the patch.

  • occular -- okay, I have finally had some time to audition the new tintinn version 0.93 and I am in general really impressed and happy that so many people love it so much. Thanks! Here are the things I like the most:

    *PRESETS! (YES!)
    *"page viewer" (that little part of the GUI on the right that tells you what page you are on)
    * the beautiful graphic of an Orthodox church and the nice font style
    *initialize button

    NOTE: tilt seems to be working fine for me, occular.

    Many people like this new version and so that may be the direction that the app is supposed to go. If so, cool. But what I have come to realize by playing with this new version and re-watching others' videos is that for most people "play" mode is what I would call "note set" mode, whereas, for me, "play" mode is "rate and hold" mode.

    The approach I am used to goes with my understanding of the technique of tintinnabulation where the minimalist concept is to have a scale and arpeggio in place and let them vary with the way they overlap with one another, rather than having too much note variation within the piece itself. This is why (I assume) Stretta built this app off of Press Caf

  • REQUEST FOR CUSTOM BUILD

    occular, could you please build me a version from 0.85 with the following features from 0.93?

    *PRESETS: so, top right button cycles through three "pages": 1.) play (rate and hold), 2.) set (arpeggiator mode and note set) and 3.) preset select page.
    *"page viewer" in the GUI
    *beautiful art work (could it be placed on the left hand side, instead of above, the other elements of the GUI? Just a thought.)
    *initialize button

    -- I would also like to request, in future builds, "up and down" mode for the arpeggiator itself (and not just for "range") and check boxes for tilt to modify note rate and duration (as in polygom

  • I'll echo the sentiment Tetramorph.

    I really miss not having the hold buttons on the same page where you can see the arpeggios.

    I've gone back to the older version and it's idiosyncrasies.

    I'm not complaining either, I just prefer the simpler level of interaction.

    Perhaps having a page dedicated to 'hold' functioning. Where the arp lights are displayed, (showing there sequence note-ons/light-ons) with the hold buttons 'sitting' on top.

    Thanks again y'alll, still a super awesome app.

  • finally just played with .93. brilliant...

    i'll be lost as far as mapping for a bit but so happy to see occular's mod at work. thanks for fixing the inlet problem.

    very good work

    _h

  • First of all, thank you all for the acknowlegments and constructive critique ! I really enjoy to be a part of it and I dont mind to make the mods on my own, rather I appreciate the idea of collective brainstorming/development on this great application. So I'm glad to see your point of view to the patch.

    As I go inside the patch, I was not 100% clear about the key-technique of tintinabulation. I very like the original layout from Stretta, but I just wanted to control many other things right from monome.. therefore the -8 pages- idea. Well, I appreciate that the actual layout goes a bit away from the original thought.

    So, I would say we go a step back and we decide together what features are really important, and what not. I think it doesnt make much sense to make different versions of the app for everyone. We could just collect all the requests and thoughs, then clean it up and make it as versatile as we can..

    I would reconsider a few points:

    * how many/less things do we want to control, like notes, arps, velocities, durations, to keep the app simple, but versatile ?
    * do you prefer left or right-oriented degree-column ?
    * how many presets do you want to have/use ?



    An Idea of possible layout:

    * We keep hold/rate parameter on one page, as in original.
    (So we get only one button to switch things, lets call them -mode button-)
    * On hold this mode button all the top hold buttons becomes page-select buttons. So you can access different pages like arp, velocity, presets, etc..
    * On release the mode button, you jump back to hold/rate page.


    So on the one hand you have a simple layout for rate/hold and degree functions as in original. On the other hand you have a deeper level of access to many different things..

    Any thoughts ?
    -----------------------


    However, I have done in the meantime a second modification
    ( not posted yet, I'm running some tests )

    additions:

    * page 5 lets you control note duration
    * page 6 lets you control note velocity
    * on holding first page button, the degree column becomes a scale column and lets you switch scales.
    * on holding first page button, the sequencing argeggios stops to light, and you see only the chord lights up, whithout flickering sequences. The sequences doesnt stops playing.

    improvements:

    * Jumping pages = instead of selecting each page and switch between them, you access it on holding that page button, and on release it jump back to page 1.
    * only 8th page (preset) can be choosen, it doesnt jump back

    I have realized, that switching pages isn't comfortable, so I had the idea of "jumping pages".

    -------------------------

    @AA: yes, I had the same thougts, to save all parameters could be done.
    What do you mean exactly with -clock status- ?




    ...Oh my broken english..its enough for now, I'm off to sleep...

  • Great debate here!

    I might add some input if I have time to play later in the afternoon. I'll let you know...

    @occular: great ideas! A few considerations.

    How about more arpeggiation modes? I was thinking it would be great to have an arp that goes up and then down the scale, maybe with the option of repeating or not the first note. And maybe some more arp modes, on a new "arpeggiator page".

    How about extending the rate a bit, say to get a 4 or 8 bar at the top and 1/32nds or 1/64ths at the bottom? Maybe with an "offset rate" page that lets you choose how far you need to go with each voice?

    I like the degree column on the left best, but I guess it's a matter of getting used to it. Logically, it makes more sense that row 1 is voice 1 etc., but there are performance considerations to be made here. I think I found the left column a bit easier.

    Are you sure it's better to display pages only while holding down the page button? How about a on/off toggle instead of jumping pages? Could it be useful to have a "default" edit/hold page and 7 other pages accessible from the top row?

    By clock status I mean the whole clock options panel.

  • Hey guys!

    Finally got the app to work and spent whole evening playing it.
    Here's a small (not really) part I managed to record:

    http://soundcloud.com/x3no/x3no-ttwftt

    You are the best for making this possible! )

  • What a great attitude occular!

    Here's my 2 cents...

    Yes, I'd much prefer a 'hold/momentary button for page operations' functionality.

    Left or right side transposing doesn't really matter.

    I think having 'note select' and 'hold'-(start-stop arp) on the main page is the most important.
    Then at first launch someone can just push some buttons and start the magic without visiting any other pages.

    Switching scales real time would be awesome.

  • Nice track x3no!

  • Here's another plea...

    I still run into duration changes, cut off notes, and hung notes while working.

    Homophonic seems to be the biggest cause but not always.

    I wish we could get some of those issues worked out more.

    Thanks as always for the hard work guys.

  • SUGGESTION FOR SHARED TERMINOLOGY

    PAGE - A framework defining the use of the monome buttons.

    PAGE BUTTON/s - Toggles or selects one of the various pages. In v. 0.85 this is one button at the top right corner. In v. 0.93 there are various page buttons along the top row, serving as a PAGE ROW

    DEGREE BUTTONS - These buttons change the modal degree of the arpeggios. They form one continuous DEGREE COLUMN. In v. 0.85 the degree column is on the far right, in v. 0.94 the degree column is on the far left

    FUNCTION BUTTONS - These are buttons which toggle or define a certain function not immediately relevant to pitch. They are defined differently depending upon the page selected. In v. 0.85 there is one FUNCTION ROW across the top that defines arpeggiator mode in the "set" page, and defines hold on/off in the "play" or "rate" page. In v. 0.94 The function buttons move depending upon which page is selected and can define, e.g., hold on/off or preset recall, among other things.

    PLAY BUTTONS - These are the rest of the free buttons of the monome interface. They "play" different things depending upon the page selected. In v. 0.85 they play the various rate options on the "play," or "rate" page; they play the various note selection options per column on the "set" page. In v. 0.93 they play notes on the "note set" page; they define the type of arpeggiation on the "arp/hold" page; they play the rate on the "rate" page; and they select or define presets on the "preset" page.

    My hope is that this list of terminology can define some shared vocabulary so that our discussion can be clear as we continue to develop this lovely app. Thanks!

  • @occular -- Thanks for your flexibility and helpfulness with regards to developing this app!

    It seems that your desire to have access to a lot of functionality from the monome device itself is what drove you to be willing to give up the function row for the sake of a page row. I, on the other hand (and I think I speak for someone like dadek here as well), am more willing to "front-end" the set up so that I have less functionality during actual play, but what I consider more "play-ability." That is to say, I prefer having simply one page button so that I can retain a helpful function row during play.

    So, to respond to you, occular, for me it is not so much about having more or less control over many different things during play, but the quality of what exactly is being controlled during play. So I would say that I desire more front-end set up so that I can have simplicity of interface during play. That is why I prefer:

    *note and arpeggio set-up together on one page
    *rate and hold together on one page
    *presets on their own page

    Your idea of having a page button that worked only when depressed and would "snap back" when released sounds really interesting. And, of course, this would be a great compromise between my desire to keep a function row and your clear desire to have multiple page buttons. I would like to second AA's point above, however, and say that I could see myself being very frustrated that I had to keep one finger on that button while trying to execute other functions. So I want to ask that, at least initially, we just try a version where the page button remains a toggle that cycles through the pages.

    I personally don't feel a need to control note duration and velocity during play itself. I see that as part of my "set up," on the GUI, before play. If we link up tilt functionality to note velocity and duration (as in Polygom

  • today i saved a row presets at 0.93 and let them play, so my hands were free for jamming. this version of tintinn is absolutely awesome! thanks so much!

    http://soundcloud.com/elektra/onandon

  • I've been using 0.93 with other ports (5000/5050 and 7000/7070) and the application works fine but tilt can only be used on the default 8000/8080 ports.
    After initializing, x/y values remain 0 when using non default ports and tilt setup has no data input.
    This was on PC with XPsp3.
    Thanks guys, wonderful app. !

  • Hello,

    a little progress I want to report.
    I build this verion upon v 0.85, but I need another few days to make it public-ready, so stay tuned..

    * 2 Layer design, ( lets call them play and edit modes):

    * play mode is as in v 0.85: rate/hold
    * in edit mode hold buttons becomes pages buttons:
    - page 1: note set
    - page 2: arpreggio
    - page 3: velocity
    - page 7: preset ( on page select: recall, on hold: save )

    * one function button do three things at once :
    - switches between first layer ( rate/hold ) and second LAST choosen layer
    - showes and edit the choosen page parameter
    - switches between degree and scale column

    * this mode button can behave in 2 modes, hold and snap back
    ( you can choose it on the GUI, whatever you prefer )


    fixed:

    * tilt listen-ports should works now

    added:

    * velocity page
    * scale column
    * clock options is included in presets

    ---------------

    @tetramorph: regarding your custom-build request, there is a logical problem to integrate presets in your layout..

    @ AA: down/up arpeggio is hard to get as well, but extended speed upwards is possible
    ( 1/32, 1/64 )

    @ dadek: no idea how to fix the duration issue at the moment... I dont know why the 7 subpatchers affect each other, it shold normally works... its really hard to get it out.

    Mr. Stretta ???


    -------------
    here is a first take straight out from the patch I made today :

    http://soundcloud.com/occular/as-it-began-to-grow

  • Occular -

    Try this. Inside tvoice, add a #1 at the beginning of note_length. That may fix the issue. (see attached image)

    1331 x 1374 - 230K
  • HOLY .....!!!!!!!!!

    its fixed, BIG thanks, maestro !

  • Woo, I'm looking forward for this! :D

  • @occular -- your description of your current version sounds really great! Please, do not worry about my "custom build" for now. Just keep doing the good work you are doing. I can't wait to try it out when you are ready to share it.

    I am also excited about extended speed possibilities and getting a fix on duration issues! (Thanks, Stretta, for swooping in with a save.) Too bad arp up/dwn is turning out to be such a problem.

    Occular, thanks so much for all your work. Peace

  • Oh, I forgot: is it too difficult to extend speed downwards to 2, 4 and 8 bars?

  • Whats the current main build, the wiki download links to 0.85 but I get a feeling that's old. I'll go back a couple of pages and find the most recent.

  • @JP -- Yes, its now version 0.93 and it is on "page 4" about midway through posted by occular. Peace

  • hey guys, i hope you can help me!

    i have other max apps running fine on the monome (i have a 64) but i seem to be having trouble setting up tintinnabulome.

    when pushing buttons on the monome, i get nothing.

    one thing that i do know i don't have right is the monomeserial prefix. per the documentation, i click the /sys/prefix/gome message box. i cannot seem to find this.

    sorry in advance if this is obvious, but i'm stuck here.

    any help is greatly appreciated.

    thanks!

  • @ajbriones: the prefix is "box"

  • hi,

    is there any chance to implement swing and maybe some kind of note repeat/stutter? I believe this could go well with the application, eventhough this might be against what tetramorph initially thought this application should do. just a thought.

    i love tin, playing around almost daily with it, it works very well with percussive elements like vibes and stuff, times flying by listening to it :)

  • Actually the prefix should be "/tin"

    You should refer to the 'doc.pdf' or info on this website for instructions, the 'documentation.rtf' is Stretta's polygome info.

  • Yes, there is a little button, "initialise," it will send the prefix to monomeserial for you. AA, does "box" actually work for you? I found that curious so I tried it with mine and it was no go.

    @herrreinholt -- no worries about anything not being MY original hope. This is a community project now - I guess it really always has been - I just set the ball rolling. My only hope is that I've always got a version with all the most recent bells and whistles that can still let me play with a simple, minimalist version of the technique of tintinnabulation. Peace

  • @tetramorph,

    i don't know what i'm doing wrong or if i'm blind, but i don't see an "initialise" button. i'm running version 0.85 and using the _tin_64_0.85.mxb app in max 5 on os x.

    please advise.