The Finger - NI effect

  • http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/producer/powered-by-kore/the-finger/?content=984

    kinda cool. could be fun to use with the many keyboard/sequencer apps..

    :)

  • a monome front end could be cool, but you’d a reaktor license to mod the patch wouldn’t you?

  • probably

    but yeah i'd probably use this with mabalhabla or something.
    anything with midi out really..

    the pages sequencer could be fun.
    kinda like automating the effects from dj64..

  • the "tim exile explains his setup" is crazy.

    But that man needs a 256.

  • dood is playing the terrace club the night before the monomeet..!
    his shit is amaaaazing
    soooo sick!
    im thinking about picking up the finger now...

    edit:
    ew..
    just read it runs through kore free 2
    really?
    for 80 bucks you cant hook up a VST wrap...
    dang son...
    thats scandalous

  • ???
    i assumed that kore free would offer such functionality, so it’s like a 80$ max patch?
    does it have rewire?

  • dont know about rewire...
    but yea....
    if you dont have reaktor 5.... no interface for you!
    just kore macro knobs...
    the effects sounds incredible... but that aint no plugin!

  • He's playing the Friday?

    I wonder if I can get my visa stamped twice in one weekend from the wife. :-)

  • ya ya...Tim Exile friday night (10/2) late night show...looks like we're going to have fellow monomers Digital Dust open up. come a day early and stay at the illustrious holiday inn, i'll even feed you brunch before the monomeet.

  • robb, no Rewire. I dont think NI support it in any of their apps, including Kore.

    I use Reaktor a bunch, and am tempted to buy this, but it just feels a bit pricey. Then again, his full Reaktor live setup is the bees-knees, and he is a pretty damn good Reaktor programmer. But if you don't own Reaktor, this is probably more compelling of a purchase for a less technically inclined crowd than the folks here.

  • Looks fantastic!

    @kid_sputnik --- does seem a bit too pricey. I'd probably go as high as $49 USD for what is, essentially, a single Reaktor patch. Albeit a pretty complex one.
    -JP

  • I got this yesterday - and while I've only scratched the surface- it's an EXTREMELY responsive app- and VERY expressive with the monome...especially on live audio inputs...it's something you can definitely get lost in...

    And if you have Reaktor, the GUI is incredible- it's definitely becoming a whole new instrument with me...definitely a must-have if you own Reaktor...

  • Oh - and yes- Tim Exile NEEDS A 256!!!

  • well.. he isn't get my 256! :D

  • i had to pick this up too and it seems really awesome so far. very responsive, awesome GUI, took about 2 minutes to figure out, but it also seems very deep and customizable. it definitely delivers what was promised in the videos.

  • The guys over at the NI Maschine forum are talking this up a bit too.
    The Finger would fit in nicely with my "Bidule Mashup" of monome, battery, kontakt, reaktor & maschine. Now that that Maschine beta is out, with operable MIDI out; I can finally start making progress of finishing it. Although, the weekend will be taken up with a 27h flight from London back to Auckland. Ouch.
    -JP

  • I love this kind of effects but it's nothing new sugarbites has artillery, and Image Line has Grossbeat, but of course i will check this new one :)

  • so.... i couldn't help myself...
    i bought that shit...
    running it off of kore player...
    in fact... the control over the effects is limited at best...
    but good dang ... the effects are incredible...
    seriously.. waayyy more powerful than artillery... and grossbeat...
    i'd say if you have reaktor5 ... its a must...
    if not.... eh...
    but i did work it into my set yesterday....
    and im feeling it....
    it just has a very sepecific application...
    glitch facing...
    glitch FACE!

  • @edison

    one thing that struck me as odd were the lack of kore sounds, i think i only saw 4?! kind of ridiculous really. the reaktor patch has a good 100+ presets in it that they should've built basic kore sounds out of at least. i own komplete + kore so it doesn't affect me so much. do you know if you can import kore sounds from other people into the free kore player? if so i'll be happy to create a bunch of kore sounds that use the presets in the reaktor patch.

    edit:
    "You have to have the full plugin version to load non-NI created .ksds for the NI plugins."

    http://www.nativeinstruments.de/forum_us/showthread.php?t=36357&page=3

    lame.

  • someone should port this to max...
    i don't have much experience with reaktor, but would this be possible?

  • someone should port this to an open source language, i'm sick of buying all these licenses just to look under the hood.

  • "someone should port this to max...
    i don't have much experience with reaktor, but would this be possible? "

    I'm guessing so, but without having tried finger i'm not sure. The 'USP' of finger seems to be the 'stackable' dynamic routing of effects (when pressing multiple keys).

    An open source clone/emulatation/answer to finger should be possible, would be great (im thinking about supercollider or openframeworks).

  • @ranway7 - you're so right. i do love max but i think im gonna start working in pd...

  • its awesome, i bought it as i have r5 atehr than f the koreness usefulnotness/

    im gonna try tonite but i figured i lareayd use ploygome routed into battery, why not setup another channel with the finger routed back to battery and have the same polygome 'notes' that are triggering the beats to trigger the effects but also set it so i can voerride and play extra fx via the keyboard as well,

    i think this is going to be a fun piece of fx work mainly for live work.

    and pricey - well who can put a price on things these days. if you want it youll buy it and NI have to pay tims wages so he can keep on busting nuts over r6 (im theorising here )

  • I broke down and bought it...

    found a coupon in my komplete5 box for a soundpack, helped me pull that trigger...

    now to get my mac back online so i can register and play with it (waiting on a new router)...

    from what i read, people are enjoying it... can't wait to run some stuff through it...

  • > someone should port this to an open source language, i'm sick of buying all
    > these licenses just to look under the hood.

    I'm sure emulating this in Max or Pd is possible. The only 2 things that come to mind is that, #1 Reaktor Core layer for programming DSP is a bit different than MSP, so directly translating some parts may be tricky, and #2 Tim Exile is a pretty damn good Reaktor DSP programmer, so getting the FX the same will again not be easy. But I know there are plenty of folks smart enough and Max/Pd/Processing/whatever savvy enough to do it.

  • I think, its nothing new than SugarBytes Artillery2.
    http://www.sugar-bytes.de/content/products/Artillery2/index.php?lang=en#

    Besides, you must have Reaktor / Kore. wha!?

  • > I think, its nothing new than SugarBytes Artillery2.

    Well, I don't know, unless the FX themselves are also similar, which I'm not sure about. At least that is what I've read so far from users of both.

    Also, you don't need to own Reaktor or Kore, you can use the free Kore Player thing. But I think it sucks without owning Reaktor (since you cannot open the Reaktor version of the GUI, only the Kore one).

  • I bought that shit too!!
    some Kore Coupon love dropped the price to a reasonable level.

    Owning Reaktor is the only reason I purchased it. Kore player is alright... but it's darn nice to get under the skirt of this one.

    Same goes for Spark.. although I haven't been as inspired by this as I thought I would.

    Now that I have the remainder of my audio gear & mic back from storage at my mum's (long story) I might pop my vocals through some FX and Finger. Maybe some harmonica processed through Resochord from the EI2 collection.
    -JP

    btw.. apparently Reaktor 6 is going to drop by the end of the year. I'm thinking after Komplete 6 release but before Christmas.

  • So, if your using this with the kore player, how much controll do you have over the effects?

  • > btw.. apparently Reaktor 6 is going to drop by the end of the year. I'm thinking
    > after Komplete 6 release but before Christmas.

    eh?

  • @emirarkman: afaik, artillery doesn't do dynamic routing base on keypress order (at least i didn't see anything on their site that indicates that it does). This is quite a significant difference imo.

  • Artillery does use dynamic routing based on key press order, I have it here, though not all effects utilize it.

    It is similar in theory to artillery in that you trigger effects with a keyboard, but the Finger does have a hell of a lot more effects in it.

    How many of those are actually desirable or useful I don't know, I guess it depends on the user/music type/personal taste.

    In terms of price, it's a lot cheaper than artillery is too.

    What I couldn't figure out via the video or info is if you can map to a user defined number of keys for each of the effects like stutter/buffer repeats, where on artillery each key has a different beat division such as 1/4 1/8 1/16 etc

  • the effect order stuff is amazing. proper difficult to do in reaktor. tim exile is a nutter. djfx would never be as good as this..... its inspired me to make the effect interactions significantly better though....

    on the subject of 'porting' to max, its definitely do-able (or at least a vague equivalent). i learnt all the dsp stuff in dj64 by learning from 'beatlookup', a reaktor patch by Clist (which i'm sure kid_sputnik is familiar with!). although msp is slightly different in its principles, it only takes a little thought to re-write effects in the max environment.

    does someone fancy modding djfx so it can accept midi messages?

  • i stand corrected!

  • > i learnt all the dsp stuff in dj64 by learning from 'beatlookup', a reaktor
    > patch by Clist (which i'm sure kid_sputnik is familiar with!).

    =)

    ... and that was inspired by the last time Exile dropped some Reaktor science on everyone (with his crippled/obfuscated Keymasher light ensemble). I made my own wanna-be as well (3+ years ago!) :

    http://co.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=userlibrary&type=0&ulbr=1&plview=detail&patchid=4064

    and :
    http://co.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=userlibrary&type=0&ulbr=1&plview=detail&patchid=4309

    and to a lesser extent :
    http://co.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=userlibrary&type=0&ulbr=1&plview=detail&patchid=4070

  • > btw.. apparently Reaktor 6 is going to drop by the end of the year. I'm thinking
    > after Komplete 6 release but before Christmas.

    >eh?

    oh... my bad!

    i misread the Reaktor forum posting from Thomas @ NI stating some info about the Reaktor update NOT being released in 2009. For some reason I read is AS being released in 2009.

    Regardless, as much as I'd love another Reaktor version, I don't really want to shell out cash on an update at the moment.
    -JP

  • wow. this is totally possible in max, but probably not by one person in a reasonable amount of time, given the sheer number of effects. a buddy and i once developed a kind of audio & paramater data communications standard for chained bpatcher-based effects in max:

    - 2 signal ins
    - 2 signal outs
    - maximum of 4 paramater ins & outs (all float from 0. to 1.), the first of which must always set the wet/dry mix (this can also effectively be a bypass-- though a binary toggle inlet could also be used for bypass
    - 1 binary toggle that and one integer in/out that sets mono/stereo for the whole chain

    for this project i'm imagining that the simpler the effects are, in terms of modifiable paramaters, the better, since most of the cool stuff probably comes out of the emergent relationships between them. we could find cool parameters for each mini-effect and lock them in, while leaving 1-2 editable.

    (maybe also an inlet for time, if the effects need that info, like beat repeat in live or something.)

    so, i'm thinking individual people could craft simple effects using this standard or a similar one, and someone else (i tentatively volunteer) could craft the routing mechanism and midi/monome interface.

    for signal routing, i'm imagining using a network of matrices, but i can see it getting really complicated really quickly...

    yeah. word.

  • i know we're all in love with max here, but i really don't see the point in putting all of this energy into porting a program from one "ajar-source" (license required) environment to another. why not rock this in Chuck/Processing/Pd/Java...something that can be read, copied + modified directly...something open-source?

  • > i know we're all in love with max here...

    Well, at least Max does have the runtime version, compared to Reaktor. But yes, still not really open source. I bet more people are skilled in MaxMSP here than anything else though.

  • let the off-topicness commence :D

    I think i've said it before but i totally agree with you rawray7.
    I've spent the last month exploring truly open source alternatives to max/msp and i still find myself coming back to my comfort zone.
    I find that the ease of use in max5 is just...brilliant. Pd is almost as good just not as easy to use and create a gui takes ALOT of time.
    Chuck is also good but the lack of a gui builder makes many applications either terrible for a user or just impossible.
    (correct me if i'm wrong on anything there)

    I have yet to look at processing in depth but from what i've seen, it looks as though it could be a good platform to work with.

    There's ma thoughts.

  • I agree w/ you Dovemouse. Except Reaktor is my comfort zone, and MaxMSP right behind (especially since Max 5). It's the same reason I use Visual C++ on Windows instead of one of the many open source GCC compiler/IDE combos. The work environment makes a huge difference.

  • max seems to me to be the quickest route to a monome port for the greatest number of people, given its ubiquity around here. so... should i start a new thread about building a max patch? (that is, are other people interested in participating in this? it might be a really interesting community project, given the modularization involved, and we'd end up with something really unique...)

  • just got this for a good price, great app i have to say.

  • k, so the 59$ coupon i got when i got kore complete electronic experience (for 80$, nice) can be used towards this so i only pay 20$? im totally getting it if thats the case...

  • Bought it. Like it. It hasn't replaced my beatlookup ensemble yet so it's not in the live set yet. Eh

    It's cool. I wish its was just a clean vst so I wouldn't be worried about CPU.

    Is it possible to run two reaktor ensembles simultaneously?

  • I often use multiple instances of Reaktor inside Bidule sometimes it's faster and/or easier to do this than rewire ensembles within Reaktor.
    -JP

  • Does that use more cpu's?

  • It is TOTALLY possible to run two instances of Reaktor (fx) in your host, and actually, I believe it is better to do this than to make one large ensemble with all your effects in it as macros. We did some testing a while back and got much better performance in Ableton running multiple instances of reaktor with plugins/patches we made in separate Reaktor instances vs. combining them into one large ensemble.

    This isn't complete fact, and I am probably remembering something wrong from when we talked/tested this, but I think it has to do with Reaktor not being multi-threaded when running as a plugin (does run multi-threaded with parallel processing in reaktor standalone). I think we found running multiple instances in your host alleviates this greatly. Also, I think there was something where in standalone, there were differences in multi-threading capabilities / performance from Reaktor and Reaktor core.

    It could be fun to get people to test this, but lets keep that to another forum! :)

  • Got this email the other day:


    "Dear user of THE FINGER,

    To fully harness the power of THE FINGER instrument, we have updated it for use on the new REAKTOR 5 PLAYER and the new REAKTOR 5.5 platform. This free update gives you greater control over THE FINGER, allowing access to the REAKTOR user interface even if you don’t own the full version. This enhanced version will replace the previous KORE Instrument version, so download your free update now.

    You will need to download and register your new version of THE FINGER."


    Not sure if the new version clears up anyone's concerns with it, but I thought I'd mention just in case.

    (Mostly, I'm just surprised to learn that I bought a copy. I think about buying it occasionally. Guess I beat myself to the punch.)

  • The Finger + 128 in midi mode seems like a good match.

    And as far as the Kore Player version having less features, hopefully the free Reaktor Player will be better.