monome

Thing looks huge
http://www.lividinstruments.com/hardware_block_details.php#
Is that the same or larger then a 256?

ya, these guys are right here in Austin.

the footprint does look rather large. to me these new psudonome's just drive home why the monome line aesthetic just works.

yea these are actually the same height as a 256 and 1/4" shorter for width/height. pretty big. but i guess so is the footprint of a 40h plus midi controller.

design is much better than the novation or akai crap. and at least its handmade and supports open-source/diy approach.

monome still has my heart tho :)

omfg.

i don't care what comes out, i still wanna 256

shit. there are now more grid controllers out there than pok

Brain Crabtree's gonna be pissed...

can we predict who's gonna be next to release something monome-esque into the market.. that livid block sure is ugly.. controls aren't layed out well at all and its huge..

@ wluis42

I should make a set of bingo cards. BEHRINGER in the center square.

totally stretta, im actually surprised they havent done it yet..

ok, that’s it! I’ll no longer try to adapt my app(s) to non-monomes until someone comes up with a standard for all those faders/xtra-knobs, like every other week there’s another grid controller…
looks better than the other clones though

i think the margin on a behringer64 would be quite low and the market probably isn’t big enough, (yet)

>i don't care what comes out, i still wanna 256

I don't care what comes out, i wanna my 256 will function next 10 years !

so i just dropped an email to the folks at livid (as they are probably trolling here) I will share. Might not do a speck of good but might as well use that 1st amendment thing.


Hello.

I have never done this before but I simply wanted to voice something to your company. Upfront, I have no formal or casual connection to the monome company. I see on the blogs and now your site you have another monomesque device -the block. This blatant design copy is rather sad and disturbing. In the past, I have seen several unique decent products from your line but to me this just crosses ethical boundaries. I know your logic probably dictates that this is just filling a void or some other such argument. However, while I was getting very interested in where Livid was headed I will most likely not be purchasing now or in the future. Yes it is true that I am only one guy, others like Novation and Akai are arguably doing the same I thing, and you must make products that sell, but I simply just think Livid has much more to offer (being a small company.)Again, no formal connections to monome but just a sadness and obligation to speak up.

Thanks for your time

I'm reserving comment until I hear what necromancer has to say about it.

fwiw, livid have had grid interfaces out for a while. and while they're not as minimalistic, open or beautifully designed as the monome, they're certainly not on the level of lame/blandness (in my opinion) as akai or novation.

that said, i think the one who needs to worry here is livid. and i think that's obvious. they have a controller similar to a monome + apc, with a 64 button grid, faders and buttons for $600 (the ohm). i believe they saw the launchpad and, basically, shit their pants coming up with something to get into that price zone. they're not as open, minimal, adaptable, accepted and respected as monome but they're not as cheap or well-known/distributed as akai or novation. so they're trying to hit the sweet spot between everyone with this.

my experience with livid has always been positive, though i don't own any of their products.

their looper max patch is solid, and every time i've seen them (i think once at maker faire, and definitely once at expo '74), they've been really friendly.

i agree with joe though, they're the ones who need to worry. monome devices have the hype and the originality behind them, while livid is still trying to carve its niche.

people who would have bought a monome will probably still buy one. hesitant parties will likely buy a launch pad. but people who would have bought an ohm, on the other hand, may be less likely to do so.. the block helps livid fit into that market, but may also cut into 64 sales (as now it seems, to the casual browser) even more overpriced.

i'm curious about tehn's "omfg" though.. was that a facepalm sort of comment, or sarcastic, or ... ?

http://monome.org/articles/2007/01/17/walnut-it-is/

amazing how long ago 8x8 grid with knobs on the side was a new idea.

my sentiment was slightly incredulous, as i'm sick of thinking about "the market" and am more wondering when someone else will design something new and innovative-- like these guys: http://www.madronalabs.com/hardware

please give them the support/hype they deserve!

i got a fairly descent reply from the livid folks and i tried to stress back basically what tehn is pleading- we don't need another 8x8 grid.

alas, i myself need a 16x16 grid but that's another thing all together.

cant wait until that soundplane comes out! perfect buddy for the monome :)

livid's response would likely be "we have been making midi controllers with wood bodies, led backlit buttons and faders/pots since 2003"

that might be true but they didn't move to an 8x8 grid until this year nor did their original design have decoupled buttons/leds so that you could have the type of visual feedback that you get with all of the monome models.

just because you got somewhere first doesn't mean that you got it right. judging by the rough and chunky look of the block... they still have a long way to go.

@mapmap >> spot on! it really does look rough and chunky.

i feel like the apparent "oh my god we need to put something out there to compete w/ the novation" has led them astray. livid is not meant to be a direct competitor w/ cheap chinese made novation boxes

if this is a scared response (which the illogical layout appears to be) i wish it drove them into a new and exciting direction, rather than forcing them to cut costs, potentially quality, and remove any sliver of originality that the original ohm had w/ a dual-deck style x-fading surface w/ a 6x6 grid.

it frustrates me that people are using economics to justify decreasing creativity > rather than pushing forward to create new products and find a new market share.

hey...at least they got rid of the printed numbers on their buttons...

i'm not really convinced that this is a response to the launch pad.

if it is, then yeah, probably the wrong type of reaction.. if not, kudos to them for being speedy. (that's the extent of the kudos though)

"Brain Crabtree's gonna be pissed..."

That ought to be made into a t-shirt.

Brian Crabtree is gonna be pissed t-shirt

http://bit.ly/2dK1Re

aha :)
i've been thinking of screen printing my own :D
anyone know who first said it? i don't recognise the username on the kanye blog :/

totally ordering one.

(the t-shirt, i mean.)

i can't actually figure out what that kanye commenter was trying to say.

Okay, I've been lurking here sometimes because people have been talking about us a little. tehn's very kind support above tells me it's time to say hi and thanks.

It's hard to diss the imitators too much because grids are just generally huge right now, and everything comes from somewhere. And I have to tread kind of carefully because you could say that monome evolved from MPC60 (okay Linn 9000), or Soundplane from the Tactex.

I do know who I want to support, though: the madfuckers like monome who take the time to design elegant pieces of concrete poetry where the whole is more than the sum of its parts, and build communities around these things.

best,
Randy (Jones, Madrona Labs)

@tehn

I have no idea, either.

What I *imagine* is you turning into the Hulk and monome+hulk = awesome.

Oh, and here is a full res .png if anyone wants to repurpose the design into something else.

stretta: when i read your last post via google reader, i was hoping the .png you attached was of brian turning into the hulk.

what a letdown.

when i stop paying my ex wife the equivalent of a bmw 5 series payment every month, I will be next in line for a 256, i dno't care how cheap or well backed any of the other controllers are. :) or build a 256 arduinome in the mean time, still buying a real 256 though :) (for the record, i'm 27, yeah... that happened...)

People are dismissing this thing fast, which I think is rather ridiculous.

First of all: Have you got any idea how hard it is to get hold of a Monome? The demand is MUCH greater than supply.

Second: Prices are much higher. The block is $399.

Third: I think people should tone down the "blatant rip-off" claims. A square controller with soft buttons is such a generic design both in terms of usability and, eh, design. Boss drum machines were rectangular, and had soft buttons to trigger drum sounds some time in 1985, I think.

i agree that people shouldn't be so quick to dismiss this.

demand vs. supply, you are simply incorrect. we've matched demand very well over the years, it's just that you have to have a few months of patience to wait for an edition. it's a different business model.

lastly, the grid is not the point. it's the open-ended, adaptable approach that monome pioneered. a fantastic community followed. comparison to boss drum machines is absurd.

these discussions are getting tired, however. we'd all best spend our time making music, exploring new application possibilities, or going outdoors.

@oivindi

If all we were talking about were a similarity to Boss drum machines with square pads, you'd have a point.

Illuminated grid banks with decoupled LEDs is the distinguishing big idea. Drum machines don't have decoupled LEDs and are not adaptable. You're not going to be able to run mlr on a Boss drum machine.

No, these devices are designed to take advantage of software created for the monome. This fact is far different from a simple passing resemblance to a bank of button pads. Implying otherwise is disingenuous.

My comment regarding the Boss drum machine was meant to be a bit on the rough edge, if only to highlight that these things are evolutionary, and that it would be a bit arrogant to claim that the monome was the beginning of something completely new. And where would it be without MaxMSP, for instance?

Re. availability: The next batch is scheduled for January 2010. That's quite a long wait, not to mention that you can't pre-order it - so you can't be sure to get it, even then. It's ok that this is the business model, but if others would like to try another business model, like Livid, then that's fine by me. You can even pre-order the Block.