fix max/mlr midi sync issues?

  • http://www.innerclocksystems.com/New%20ICS%20Sync-Lock.html

    has anyone used this before?

    im curious if this might solve the max/mlr midi sync issues.

    i'm really trying to figure out a reliable solution to sync ext. hardware to mlr or vice versa.

    thanks!



    edit: just read through the manual, it uses .wav pulses to generate the midi clock,

    from my understand, it might work but would take up 2 tracks in mlr (start/stop and clock), which isn't that desireable plus its like $500.... ='(

  • 500?! yikes. but then, it does look pretty reliable for ext. hardware...

    the website looks like a crazy illuminati/conspiracy-theorist website, though, haha.

  • yea it is a bit pricey.

    was pokin around the cycling74 website and found a few tidbits regarding midi sync patches.

    i dont know jack about max programming, but there are two objects that specifically deal with midi sync.

    http://www.cycling74.com/docs/max5/refpages/msp-ref/sync~.html
    and
    http://www.cycling74.com/docs/max5/refpages/msp-ref/phasor~.html

    i also found this txt that someone had posted up that claims to send clock and transport info....

    #N comlet Send;
    #P inlet 16 59 15 0;
    #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
    #P window linecount 1;
    #P comment 32 59 31 196617 Send;
    #P toggle 16 94 15 0;
    #P newex 16 214 29 196617 gate;
    #P message 321 179 52 196617 Prophecy;
    #P newex 321 159 158 196617 select 0;
    #P message 321 138 158 196617 $1;
    #N comlet Port;
    #P inlet 310 60 15 0;
    #P newex 310 82 67 196617 prepend port;
    #P comment 326 60 30 196617 Port;
    #P message 217 174 26 196617 252;
    #P message 148 174 26 196617 250;
    #P message 79 174 26 196617 248;
    #N comlet Stop;
    #P inlet 217 60 15 0;
    #P comment 235 60 30 196617 Stop;
    #N comlet Start;
    #P inlet 148 60 15 0;
    #P comment 166 60 30 196617 Start;
    #N comlet Clock;
    #P inlet 79 60 15 0;
    #P newex 16 258 51 196617 midiout;
    #P comment 97 60 30 196617 Clock;
    #P newex 310 216 67 196617 prepend port;
    #P newex 321 116 48 196617 loadbang;
    #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 18.;
    #P comment 0 7 88 196626 ClockOut;
    #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
    #P comment 86 15 206 196617 Send MIDI beat clock and transport controls;
    #P comment 89 31 218 196617 Takes an argument for which MIDI port to
    use.;
    #P connect 24 0 22 0;
    #P connect 22 0 21 0;
    #P fasten 4 0 6 0 315 247 21 247;
    #P connect 21 0 6 0;
    #P connect 14 0 21 1;
    #P connect 13 0 21 1;
    #P connect 12 0 21 1;
    #P connect 7 0 12 0;
    #P connect 9 0 13 0;
    #P connect 11 0 14 0;
    #P connect 17 0 16 0;
    #P connect 20 0 4 0;
    #P connect 19 1 4 0;
    #P connect 16 0 4 0;
    #P connect 3 0 18 0;
    #P connect 18 0 19 0;
    #P connect 19 0 20 0;
    #P window clipboard copycount 25;


    link to thread it came from..
    http://www.cycling74.com/forums/topic.php?id=13972


    my question is, could any of these 3 options be implemented into mlr? or somehow interfaced with it? (or other monome patches) or is the sync from max so bad that even if this was implemented and does work, it still wouldn't matter?


    help/comments/participation is mad appreciated...thanks!!

  • when i looked at MLR last, it already uses the sync~ object(and sync~ is basically like phasor~ but with external sync options...)... but maybe i was looking at the oldest version, MLRV(.27.11.9) also uses a creative mix between transport-locked phasor~ and transport's tempo informing sync~(depending on whether you select internal or external clock) and then triggering other stuff directly from the transport object...

    i never sync anything to external modules(i need to buy me some good analog modulars)... so i guess i'm not the most informed to post here since i can't really test it well...

    hopefully someone else'll know more about the sync~/MLR relationship... but it does seem that it's implemented there already...

  • as far as syncing mlr is concerned, i've had the the best success syncing everything to mlr.'s tempo, rather than trying to sync mlr to something else... seems to work better on my system that way...

  • thanks for the responses res and vga

    @res...thats interesting...im gunna crack open the hood to mlr and have a look around when i get home from work...prob wont help any since i dont know what im doin..lol

    i may also try the rewire route again and see if the results are different this time around....*shrug* i remember the first time, i never saw max/msp as an option in Live's settings.....version of Live wouldn't have anything to do with it would it? i'm running version 5 still



    @vga

    would u mind explaining your process to sync to mlr please?
    does it fluctuate or is the sync stable?

    thanks!

  • tried rewire again last night....made my MLR and other versions of MLR go crazy for awhile then it settled down again...very weird.

  • so the process for me was pretty simple, i'm on a mac so i select an IAC bus to send midi clock to live, you just select the bus you want to use from the pulldown menu in options, on mlr. (i usually use 2.27) and then in live make sure that you've selected sync input for that bus in your midi settings. you'll want the dac off and live stopped when you sync them, and then turn on external sync in live, then switch on the dac in mlr, and live should be synced to mlr's tempo.

    hopefully that makes sense... if not let me know, i can maybe make a video of how i do it if you can't figure it out.

    oh and if you're on a pc, you can midiyoke instead.

  • thanks much vga!

    ahh thats why i was trippin cause im on a PC and was readin all these posts about how u just set the midi clock in mlr and set it in Live...but i couldnt see it in Live...was tryin to avoid using midi yoke...gues ill havta give that a go....rewire is not gunna work for me.


    i hope this works with a stable midi clock n all that!

    thanks again!!

  • no problem! let me know if it works for you! or if you have any other problems.

  • I've been trying this out myself (windows xp pc) and I've worked out a few wrinkles. My setup doesn't use external hardware (other than the monome!) but I'd like to give it a try sometme. Anyway, after trying all the VST hosts out there for XP that I could find (and I didn't need a mortgage to own), I settled on minihost. Chainer was ok, but quickly went a little senile and even managed to cause bluescreens, something I'd not witnessed on one of my pc's for a very long time.

    Anyway, I'm using various free VST's, and using midi yoke, which runs like a dream and is very easy to use.

    I load up mlr and gcontrol, set gcontrol to accept a midi clock from yoke 1, and set mlrv to broadcast on it. I run minihost and load up whatever I fancy from the VST's I have, and set to recieve midi on yoke 2. I set gcontrol to broadcast on yoke 2.

    I don't hit send until I've got a small pattern into gcontrol (30 seconds work). Then whenever I want gcontrol to start triggering my vst, I hit "send" from the midi menu in mlrv.

    Seems to work just fine.

    I am tempted to look into making an open source "soundcard audio click > midi" box. Although, do I want CV's for modular analog gear first...so much to do, so little time!

  • so i messed around a bit last night...i got midi yoke working between mlr and live, but its def not in sync...i think my process is off or something or maybe its just how it works?

    anyway, im using Live 5 and one of the AES edit mlrs (the pink one).

    i set mlr to output midi clock on yoke 1 and Live to receive on yoke 1 and set it to ext sync.

    then i loaded up some .wavs into mlr and a drum loop into live.

    i turn on DAC and live starts rolling, seemingly syncing...but they are not.

    no matter where i set the tempo in MLR, the tempo in live stays the same.

    am i doin something wrong here? maybe i need to set something up with a midi track?

    i really love using MLR to make beats from the ground up with the live recorder but i'm starting to wonder if i should just bite the bullet and start doin the recording in Live and just render the loops and then load into MLR...not nearly as fun tho for some reason.

    or i suppsoe i could ditch the whole syncing thing and for example play the pads off of my drum machine myself...would prob sound cool being off time/beat too....thinking out loud.

    thanks again guys!

  • i remember watchin a video back in the day of a tutorial on how to set mlr and live to sync...dude had like all these midi tracks goin...i looked last night and i couldn't find it. only one tutorial for mac.

    i think i might sacrifice a paycheck or two and just get live 8 and max4live.

    my computer is slightly older but is above the specs on the ableton site....
    do u think i will run into CPU issues? guess i wont know until i try! but curious how others systems are runnin it, and how much CPU load it induces on the system.

    im workin with a P4 like 2.55 ghz (? ballpark) 1.5 gb ram

  • Sorry Ringo - somehow managed to lose this thread in with the rest :P

    I'm running mlrV now and it's synced to live, although it is hard to get them tight it's not bad. I'm loading the same sample in both to try to get it working, if you use different samples it's usable (just about).

    I can change the tempo in mlrV and it changes the sample playing in max.

    1) Open mlrV, hit midi tab, select yoke1 (or whatever).
    2) Open Live, open options, select "sync" beside midi yoke 1 in midi tab.
    3) Hit "EXT" button, top left of the Live window
    4) Hit "ON" over in the midi tab on mlrV
    5) Enjoy :)

    Ofc if anyone knows how to get them tighter I'd like to know too :D

  • Solved!

    I went back into ableton's midi options and ticked the "track" option as well as sync. It's now locked.

  • all good xunil! it happens. pretty easy to lose a thread here.

    thanks for the update. ill have to mess with it again when i get home tonight....i never had the track in ableton set, just the sync....i hope i can get it to work with MLR AES cause i've grown really accustomed to it, plus the live recorder functionality is beautiful and a big reason i am trying to get them synced.

    tried mlrV once, didnt feel quite the same (i'm sure its a great patch i'm just afraid of change =P)


    edit: oh btw, when you have them synced does it transmit transport msgs? (like start, stop)

  • Nope, no communication between the two other than the clock as far as I can see - it was my first try to get them in time with each other, since the demo ran out on ableton I can't save or load so I lost interest in it - just about to start 3 years of university, I can't afford to buy toys any more :D

    I've just been using gcontrol to play vst percussion/drums using the mlrV generated clock.

  • so am i correct in thinking u have to manually start both sequencers at the same time?

    didnt get to around to messing with this last night, hopefully tonight i'll have some time.

  • That's as good as I've managed with it, but I'm a beginner so there's probably better ways to get a result.

    7up springs to mind if you're looking for sample cutting + ableton.

  • so i demo'd live 8 + max4live last night

    was using flin, raptor and mlr + some drum machine vsts and drum break clips. was workin beautifully@!!! all in sync together. so beautiful.

    gunna try to sync to some external gear today, but i dont see why it wouldn't work....

    thanks again for all the responses =)

  • @vgaforest
    "hopefully that makes sense...if not let me know, I can maybe make a video of how I do it, if you can't figure it out."

    Even a written step-by-step would be greatly appreciated, which ever is easiest for you.

  • has anybody tried synching NI reaktor to MLR (MLR as master)? i find it impossible..