so... Downloaded an evaluation copy of Max 7...

  • As every update does, it looks life-changing. I'm particularly excited to see Stretta's BEAP included in the installation! I'm gonna be 'early adopting' the hell out of this one. I'll let people know if there are any (grid) related issues.

    7 can co-exist with 6, so i'll just take 'er for a spin and see what happens.

    download it here: :)

  • yup, pretty exciting. i actually canceled halfway through the download because i knew i probably couldn't go back to 6 once i tried 7. it looks sooo much better. just can't afford it right now. :(

  • neither can I, until i get off my lazy ass and email a few invoices. but that subscription model seems tempting. assuming it could include gen.

    also Cycling makes it explicit that 7 won't interfere with paths you've got associated with 6. you can dl 7 and still use 6 for max for live as well. lol finally installing. i had to check the cycling forums and see what was going on before diving in!

  • yeah it "just works" with a few serialosc.maxpat patches i've tried it with. using a monome the way i have been and thinking of new ways too. it you think sublime text is attractive (and we know github does) then you'll think Max 7 is pretty. More importantly, it seems to be working fine.

  • I didn't known it was out thanks!

  • Looks great, but i have to afford it somehow, thats the problem

  • ooo have to check this out today. serialosc.maxpat is supposed to be included also!

  • It's crashing TPV pretty hard, so trying to figure out why. Also it looks like GUI is going to be a mess for a bit (saving a patch in Max7 makes it look different/weird in Max6, with no way of making it look right on both). Max7 has also defaulted all my panel objects to a WHITE border, so TPV looks pretty weird at the moment, lol. The downside of this is, though, once I fix it in Max7, it will look shit in Max6.

  • @rodrigo- these are all the reasons i stopped mlrv support at max5. it's just too much to support multiple versions of the same code- it just didn't make sense unless i redesigned to take advantage of the new features.

    i'm surprised there isn't more focus placed on compatibility in these increasingly common updates. there's probably some lesson for monome in there...

  • There is lesson for all of us in there...
    Some years ago I saw a lectur by Neville Brody, who was talking about the artist's relationship to his/her instruments. He invoked Miles Davis, BB King and others who famously had deep relationships with the instruments they played. He then asked us the question about what kind of relationship can we develop with hardware, or better yet with software, given the never ending, and continually accelerating cycles of updates and redesigns.
    It's a good question, and one that, I feel is relevant to all of us.
    What chance do we have to reach a level of mastery or sophistication in our work, when tools change under our hands?
    I understand that the paradigm has shifted. But some things will never change: like the idea of practice, or the simple amount of time (and often repetition) that is needed to elevate what we do.

    Having said all that: I too am looking forward to Max7 :-)

  • great to know that it's here! looks very interesting.

  • @RajaTheResidentPoser great comment +1
    i am learning this programm for quite some time and its awesome to say the leadt

  • Raja, my comment was not meant as a complaint at all, and certainly not about Max7, which I have yet to try.
    More of a general consideration in this moment, where we are all thinking of the next steps etc.
    And (no offense to Raja) I do think there is a lesson in this process. What is learned, as always, will largely depend on us alone.

  • Laborcamp, I agree with you. Software instruments are definitely not akin to nice Bösendorfer with it's almost magically buttery key action.

    That being said, if you want to stick with a software instrument for a long time, I suggest Reaktor. V4 was the first piece of software i bought.. probably close to 10 years ago. They're slowly rolling up to version 6 since then!

    also, a musical instrument has a consistent interface. I would say this is true with my 128 gs. I know it, I know how it feels when i'm pressing buttons. Theres a certain muscle memory developed in using it as an interface that, unconsciously, i know how hard or soft a button needs to be pressed.

    Yes, a grid is *not* a trumpet, with it's subtle shifts in tone available for gentle glissandos or microtonal shifts in tuning. One could choose to write a patch that allowed the grid to work as such, if one so chose.

    My point is, create your own instrument, and you'll have a deeper understanding of it every day you work with it — and it's all yours whether you give it away here or not. The only patch I've got up here, Isonome 128, is simple, but I use it every day instead of a traditional keyboard midi controller, and I'm always learning new fingering techniques with it that continue to surprise me.

    Even though I developed it, my workhorse midi controller patch teaches me new things every day. The relationship is symbiotic.

    To compare a trumpet or piano to max and a monome device (grid or otherwise) can only be accurate if the trumpeter or pianist chose to take the time and build their own instrument.

  • Laborcamp, there's a reason raja is "the resident asswipe" on the c74 forums ;)

    Raja, I definitely do not understand max as well as you, or tehn or galapagoose, or many on here. I'm grateful for the work you've done and patches you've released. Shit, my "MaxTutorials" folder will always have your sampling, and bitshifting tutorials in them!

    We ought to give ourselves a *bit* of credit though. Starting a max project with the intent to interact with an osc device is not exactly your typical "Max 101"!

    @Rodrigo, I'm sorry about TPV! i know you've used a lot of gen in it, and I'm sure there's a bit of transition to be expected. Imagine if we were all using C, and it was proprietary, and we needed to buy a new C license every 12 months for an update. Pure Hell. Free promo for Pd? lol.

    Thank the gods for the Lemur. writing any code for that has really improved my comfort with even basic C - and coding in general. Though it's time to break out those books on C i have on kindle!

    and js...and shell scripting...

    well the shell scripting was primarily due to Yosemite. I wanted that shit fast - and it's not out of the box. practicing my CLI-fu daily.

    anyway. digressions are my forte. Raja, and Laborcamp, you're both right, and there is definitely room for both opinions afaic. call me the "Resident Diplomat" ;)

  • Im just glad c74 made max more intuitive, without removing the deeper features that make it so powerful.

  • @Raja - as someone from the states with a year and a half of Arabic classes, I'll tell you you're doing fine. Learning another form of vocal communication is fucking ROUGH. I only remember enough to shoot the shit with my local bodega :P

    my belief is that we're here (as humans, or sentient or whatever) to learn what is possible in this incarnation. This may not be in line with your or anyone elses beliefs, but thats how I roll. we'll always be students of life :)

  • just to clarify my above thoughts –

    sometimes it's best to say an older piece of software is 'finished'. if you want to use it, use it in the version it was designed in and for. or better yet ship it as a standalone app that removes a number of the unknowns. that's what i did with mlrv.

    the beauty of that is not to force yourself to hold onto relics of software, but rather to free yourself from the shackles of past projects built for a passed time, and work on new things using the full palette of tools at your disposal. whether that means upgrading to max7 is yourrrr choice.

  • Totally agree with @galapagoose ...
    There are a lot of layers to the whole situation. let's not forget operating systems, platforms, and hardware, all of which also change/evolve creating pressure on user end software, which either simply disintegrates and dies, OR is in need of constant updates, revisions etc. = "the shackles of past projects".
    It is quite possible that my brain is a XX century brain, struggling with XXI century paradigm. I want to make art, and not be in constant state of learning new tools to make art with, OR perpetually making tools alone. To be more precise: I love learning new tools when I decide to reach for new tools. What I grow impatient with is when the tools I am using appear to become useless, or change their functionality, apparently out of their own volition.
    I also grow very selfconscious of this kind of thinking being a symptom of getting old and tired... :-)

  • I fully agree with @galapagoose on this and you bring up another good point @Laborcamp - If Chopin's piano was down for a week while he was updating it's OS, we might have a few less mazurkas.

    I don't think you're old and tired - (i'm 33, maybe i am too tho) - i think we're at a similar point. I'm considering staying with max 6 as well. I'll upgrade i'm sure, but as @galapagoose stated, those patches will be new, and not based on an old model.

    Someone (supposedly Da Vinci) once said "Art is never finished, merely abandoned."

    I am pretty insanely autodidactic as well, but luckily my wife will catch me from time to time and ask "are you making music, or tools that you *really* need to make the music?". I appreciate that accountability.

  • some cool newness i appreciate from a quick glance:
    freezing attributes
    revamped accessibility to patcher format
    drag and drop media into patcher
    jitter opengl render quality seems to have improved

    what have you all come across?

  • crazy…

    'pitchshift~', 'stretch~', and 'retune~' are what i'm checking out first too.

  • while exploring in msp earlier i kept thinking that the audio quality sounded particularly good (having just come out of a live 9 32-bit session) but i dismissed the thought as an illusion. with that 64-bit reminder, i think it actually did sound better. now i need to run A<->B 64-bit audio tests. re-re-reminders are great.

  • "Max 7 can both host and author Max for Live MIDI and audio devices without Live...The unlicensed version of Max opens patches and edits them; it just doesn’t save."

    just read these among new features and i'm SOLD

    but there's no excuse to put off the real license cause there's a subscription now!

  • maybe sort of an old hat already, but have you guys seen those hilarious first peek vids from sam......

  • i would like to see more of an explanation about [] as well.

  • heads up...
    i dropped a large folder (8 gigs) into the file browser to experiment with collections, and Max seems to be stuck in a perpetual state of "Your database is being updated, please wait." The program is ultra slow to open (thought it was repeatedly not responding, about 15 minutes of waiting and it opened). I've been stuck at 7% of "Your database is being updated, please wait." for about half an hour. Uninstalling the program, deleting the user/document folders and reinstalling didn't stop this whole fiasco. Due to this, the whole left toolbar is inaccessible as the database is updating. Hmm..

  • update:
    i missed the files in /application support for a complete reset and reinstall.
    the lesson to be learned is that there's a ceiling to be weary of when importing files into the collection. move smaller batches (c74 suggested <1gig at a time) and all will be fine.

  • Just downloaded and got sucked into Max7 right away. I really found the new layout and included BEAP modules a huge creative boost versus my experience with Max/MSP before. I learnt Max over 10 years ago but got really frustrated with it in that time, I felt it was visually getting really long in the tooth and tough to remember all the object names I'd needed for a patch, and they fixed all that. It really feels like Visual Programming Language now to me with the icon objects in the top row object finder drop down menu.

  • a bit confuse on how to have serialosc working with this grey new version.
    Where must I put the "serialosc.magic" file?

  • Right click on the Max 7 application >> "Show package Contents"
    Then browse to this folder: ~Resources/C74/patchers

  • Thank you.

  • cool, great info Raja.

  • Hello!
    I'm wondering if theres anyway to set up a Pages type app for use in max 7?
    From my understanding Pages isn't compatible with 64 bit architecture.

    I'm fairly new too all of this, but would like to thank you all for the wealth of knowledge and info provided in these forums

  • snippets. snippets ROCK.

    with the included updates, they've really made it accessible enough to newer users to create their own live performance setup, or reproduce DAW functionality rather easily. pitchshift~ and timestretch~ combined with playlists (allowing warp markers!) is pretty badass.

    hosting m4l devices within max? awesome. it's all there, and everything still has the potential to be as deep as you wanna make it. i'm definitely upgrading, but i'll prob do the subscription for a few months first to see how it's hourly "phone home" affects cpu cycles.

    don't like that one at all.

    also the new UI is pretty, but i find max 6/5 (started learning in 5) to be quicker for me. I'm just used to the UI. It's like, i dunno, using an OS where everything is in Lucida Grande your whole life, and then the next iteration all the type is in Helvetica Neue ;)

  • here's a tip. if you decide to include your 100+ gig sample library in the search path. expect it to be updating the database for a day or so ;)

    also - double-clicking creates a new object.

    there's a suite of keyboard shortcuts they call "Patching mechanics" that come CLOSE to the amazing max toolbox developed by Nat. Toolbox still kills it, but their implementation's alright.

    oh the js object can now reference other js files. kind of a game-changer :)

    Max 7 doesn't have a runtime version. "runtime" users just DL Max and use it in trial, then after 30 days you just can't save - essentially runtime. may simplify developing patches.

    i'm still exploring though!

  • "i'll prob do the subscription for a few months first to see how it's hourly "phone home" affects cpu cycles."

    what do you mean?

  • Great tips Misk, I know what you mean about the interface changes but I chalk that up to nostalgia. I prefer the grayscale ui for patching at night.

  • man, this update sure coincides nicely with my exams just finishing.. reckon its worth it just have time-stretching

    I like the UI, most of it matches the app i've been working on anyway :)

  • upgraded to 7!

    i upgraded because i want to use max 7 as the default m4l editor (couldn't figure out another way to use 7 with m4l without a license). ultra excited about the new interface, jitter improvements, etc :D