any Aleph news ?

  • the modular stuff and new grid seem to be pumping away wonderfully but i'm wondering if there's going to be any Aleph announcements/news/updates coming up? (i'm aware I've had it for a year now) .. I do keep checking the github but there's been no activity there for quite a few months now. Will BEES or the modules ever reach a V1.0 I wonder?

    oh also, here's the full length video of the concert/theatre thingy I did with the Aleph end of last year. still needs some colour correction and better audio mix, so it's not public yet, but you'll all keep it yourselves right?

    (password : scifiopera )

  • looking forward to replies...
    (even tho i'm still obsessed with beatslip...)

  • i believe Ezra said somewhere that BEES is now mostly considered complete. what i'm really looking forward to is a LINES update and the addition of more modules. but who knows how close we are to that

    it does however seem like they might be gearing up to do a second run of alephs this year

    so i'm optimistic :)

  • yeah i guess it's the BEES / Lines integration that still bugs me (that they work on two different timescales which are really hard to communicate between accurately) - i don't mind which gets the update :) .. though I do still dream of buffers in Lines that have properly variable playback speeds (i think this required interpolated buffers?)

  • i was gonna start a "state of the aleph adress" thread a few weeks ago

    glad somebody did...

  • +1, about to sell my aleph as I guess I am not eager enough/too busy with my dayjob to dive deeper...

  • anyone have any cool scenes they wish to share?

  • I'm somewhat doubt that second run will occur. Also there were no new contributions to GitHub since Nov 15

  • The steeper the learning curve and the bigger the investment necessary, the smaller the community, and the slower the dev. Arduinos cost next to nothing and you can make them do some cool things with very little effort. Alephs are the other end of that scale.

    Grids, relatively cheap, instant gratification - constantly updated.
    Arc, relatively cheap, a bit higher maintenance - good amount of community support.
    Aleph, expensive however you frame it, C programming is less accessible, small community so very slow dev.

    I love the idea of the Aleph especially the CV side, but I couldn't justify the time and money investment for something that I don't think I'd be able to learn to use properly for months and months. Some people love that investment of time and money, but a lot of people just want to make cool music in an evening.

    I'd love to see a cheaper less powerful, more user-friendly aleph, maybe like a tiptop z-dsp? Maybe like a Nord Micromodular?

  • fucking hell I ramble on more than Raja

  • @kineticmonkey no offence but raja is in a whole different league.

  • hello everyone.

    here's the reality on the aleph: we managed to create a very ambitious machine that by its very nature seems like it should always do more-- because truly it can, if the energy and time and code can be put into it. this is why the project appealed to us in the first place. and aside from that possibility, we're pretty excited about the multitude of things you can do with it in its current form-- strange musical systems not possible with much else short of a computer.

    that said, this was an extraordinarily difficult project to execute. much that could go wrong in the manufacturing process, went wrong. there is a lot we would need to consider before a second run regarding manufacturability, usability, and marketability. in the meantime we've been reinvesting in the grid and grid experience-- our original endeavor-- which wholly enabled the lofty ambition of the aleph.

    while we're committed to the aleph we can't really say when the next edition will happen. we will be making updates and additions when we find time. i know ezra and trent both have things to share. we very much aspire to cultivate a core group of contributors-- as evidenced by the substantial amount of time invested in the development guides.

    it's amazing that the aleph exists. we're grateful for your support in making it happen. and we look forward to building momentum.

  • yeah

    the ambitious scope of possibilities has been a blessing + a curse at times

    i've held on to mine while selling/trading other gear cause i expect to turn a corner with it eventually...but havent had the time i thought i would to personally contribute to dev

    even in the current state i've had enough magic moments that i cant let it go

  • i wish i could contribute more to the development side, but i'm not much of a coder, especially in c

    as it stands aleph is a really important piece of hardware for me and i've been performing with it regularly. i don't think i could ever replace it short of getting one or more midi-cv cv-midi converters and running max.

    and BEES itself has so many possibilities that i haven't explored yet, that I'd still be just as happy if there were no more updates down the line

    so a HUGE thanks to tehn, monome, ezra, trent and whoever else for making at least a first run of alephs happen :)

  • ps i do eventually plan on posting a bunch of the scenes i've been using lately, but they're pretty idiosyncratic things built for my needs and to work with my euro setup. plus i have to rebuild a bunch of them after i smashed a sd card at a gig. but one day ;)

  • yeah i think this is such a weird relationship i have with aleph

    the fact that i even describe it as a's the same highs and lows i've felt with grids and arcs in the past

    part of me is frustrated, but mostly at myself for not harnessing all the latent power within my grasp

    its really changed how i think about and make tunes (just like the grid years ago)

    shout out to kelli & soren too along with the usual suspects karl mentioned :)

  • @gli: "even in the current state i've had enough magic moments that i cant let it go"

    copy that.

  • agreed with the above, i feel a little more special knowing that more aren't going to be produced (at this stage..)
    i've come close to parting with mine once or twice but don't think i could, its a magical lil box and i know that i would regret it a lot if i sold it

  • Perhaps we should lend a few units to Summer of Code or similar?

  • Well I guess another question would be, what are the ideas that people have that they haven't been able to implement yet using Bees or the existing code? It might be that the people with the ideas and the people with the coding ability just haven't had the right conversations yet.

    Look what happened with MLR - the first version wasn't that userfriendly and now it's started to work like an end product with the M4L version and MLRV2.

    Perhaps this could happen with other ideas?

  • i want to reiterate that there will be more development on the aleph!

    and also, that i'm not directly asking anyone to become interested in programming. it's equally important to have strictly-musicians using the hardware and helping guide useful methods.

    bees, however, i would not call programming. it's very flexible. if you want to go further with the aleph, learn bees. it'll feel a little weird, but worth the effort.

  • to answer OP: yes.

  • @duncan_speakman: how's this sound: bees conrtol value translates 1:1 to milliseconds. add a new control is an arbitrarily scaled multiplier (0.25-4.0 or something) for all time values.

    that's very easy.

    interpolated buffer access: this is not hard, but not trivial. requires functioning and efficient 32.32 math lib. shouldn't take more than a day. for efficiency, should also have buffered audio (which could be harder.) i held off on both these tasks because other people expressed interest in taking them (never happened.)

    i took a break from intensive development on aleph because A) it does a lot of things that i like right now, B) there are other projects that i want/need to pursue , C) i want to encourage other people to try implementing stuff. it's not a reasonable expectation to have me or brian doing everything forever.

    i've had basically zero feedback on the november updates which included a patch editor for linux/homebrew (for which which people have been loudly asking since day 1) and also template programs with very extensive and time-consuming comments and documentation. it also includes robust serial I/O, which is extermely useful.

    i realize that programming in c is not for most people (or at least, not that they know of!) but i hope there are a few out there who are interested in taking some relatively painless first steps into this wonderfully empowering world of really making your own stuff. (and if you can code at all, you can code in c, trust me.)

    i actually performed the other day with the aleph for the first time in a while, and a rare occasion where it was really playing a central performance role. i'll share that patch, but it's not complicated.

    huuuge props to @Test2 for the contribution. i know i said i would help with wav streaming on the DSP end, and haven't yet. in my defense, i'm eyes-deep in the crunch phases of paid projects with deadlines right now.

  • also. i want to see more patches and stuff! this is an open source community effort on every level. everyone has the same tools.

  • @KtulTriokus . i am a freelance contractor in the music tech industry. winter is NAMM season and crunch time for R&D. winter of 2013-2014 my job was doing aleph, but now i have other jobs. i'll be back in the git soon enough.

  • and yeah, i'll be focusing on new+improved DSP options.

    and finally, to echo tehn, many many thanks to everyone who got in at the beginning and has stuck with the thing thus far. i know there have been a lot of frustrations. but it's a unique device that i'm very glad to have and i want everyone's help making it better. that includes starting threads like this one to keep me motivated.

  • yeah, this: "if you want to go further with the aleph, learn bees. it'll feel a little weird, but worth the effort."

    i would love to see the fft spectral stuff emerge at some point :)

  • Bees is fantastic. The system has been very stable since the november release.

    The inclusion of both meadowphysics and white whale ops have helped offset the hardware cost for me. I've built out my own scenes using both so I haven't had to purchase the euro equivalents... Earthsea was another story.

    I'm not a developer so won't be able to contribute on that side. Still looking forward to future devlopment from @tehn and company... and really hoping the spectral analysis tools eventually see the light of day.

  • i hear you... i want to do some FFT stuff too. i have all the high-level algorithms but not the platform glue. i need like a month of financial security and no other work (and 2014 was a mad scramble.)

    what we need is a grant. with six months of dedicated concentration the aleph capabilities could be doubled or tripled. (and i live cheap.)

  • "The inclusion of both meadowphysics and white whale ops have helped offset the hardware cost for me. I've built out my own scenes using both so I haven't had to purchase the euro equivalents..."

    true for me too + cannot be understated

  • this is all good news :)
    in response to the various good thoughts from people -
    @tehn yes it's amazing it exists, props to all the team who made it. In terms of fostering the user community i don't really know how these things work (online). I have been puzzled by how few people seem to be actively discussing/using this thing on this forum, considering there's something like 100 units out there I feel there's maybe only 6 or 7 people on here who talk/contribute? (i might be wrong and missing posts.. apologies!!). How did it happen in the early monome days, were there only 100 grids out there at first?

    I did my darndest to contribute heavily by making tutorial videos and bunches of scenes for people to use, i know some of them have been well used by a couple of people but where are everyone else's scenes/tutorials etc?( echoing @zebra here) I feel like I sort of used up all my ideas and would love things to bounce off.
    (one note I would mention on this is that the 'sharing' page is actually quite hard to find. Could it no go back as a header on the Aleph docs page?. for me it feels a bit like you're trying to hide our contributions! (I know you're not)

    In terms of the C development and tutorials I did try in a period of work downtime I had but hit so many brick walls on just learning how to just write code/make files/use github etc before I even got to the Aleph specific stuff (time is a factor here of course) .. I suppose I'm sitting in the musician/geek camp rather than the hardcore coder. I want to connect things and hear the impact immediately (which is why BEES is so appealing).

    It seems @test2 is the only person outside of Monome who has shared C coded stuff (i will install and test it soon I promise!) are ANY of the other people who bought an Aleph knowledgable about coding in C? are they hiding?

    @zebra In terms of the graphical editor I also wondered where everyone went?! I never especially saw much use for it in my workflow but people seemed really fixated on it. Are people not using it at all?

    @zebra - yes a 1:1 control value to ms would be great.. how would this combine with the fact metro takes a control value as ms already?

    @analogue1 yes please post, no matter how idiosyncratic!! I could do with inspiration (although I don't have any modular stuff so the CV isn't much use to me :( )

  • I missed out on the first run because at the time I really didn't grasp the possibilities of the aleph, and as someone with some experience in C I regret it now.

    I'm looking forward to a second run and trying to contribute. For me the complexity and flexibility of the aleph are it's main selling points, though I can see why people may be frustrated by it or it's relative lack of development.

    This probably goes without saying, but I'm sure once more people get involved in developing for the aleph there will be more of a balance between low-level tinkering and instant gratification.

    Lastly, @duncan_speakman, your videos are the main reason I started to understand the possibilities of the aleph, so thanks for that. Hopefully I can repay that hard work later.

  • @duncan_speakman I'll openly confess what i told karl a few months ago...the math/logic needed for pretty basic operations seems to elude me and i dont really know how to make BEES accomplish whats in my head. I tend to think in terms of direct connections between gear and that's why I thought the visual editor would help. But I'm guilty of spending more time recording (or trying the prgm beta) than properly tackling BEES or the graphical editor.

    to compound things, i came to realize i dont really have many (any?) great app strength is misappropriation. i expected to have more to pick apart and rebuild

    the only unique thing i made, a few months ago, was a scene to modulate WAVES with an arc. it seemed too pitiful to share (especially since most aleph owners have grids rather than extra encoders)

    i tried modifying meadowphysics to trigger analog drum modules via CV out but ran into problems with the scaling so i ditched that project temporarily

    but there are still TONS of connections between tools that i havent tried and i will share any of the scenes i put together that work

  • just so you know, you can also load scenes into the editor... and export to JSON... and i even made a GraphViz export option, which i never exactly finished, but could easily do if there is any interest demonstrated.

    point being it might be a useful way to inspect or modify existing scenes on a bigger canvas.

  • oh nice

    thanks @zebra

  • in response to the thread title, yes!

    quad delay from Test2 on Vimeo.

  • errr.. @test2 hello?!! this is exciting, is it a 4 buffer version of Lines?!!

  • @duncan_speakman I would have to say no because it does not have all the functions of lines (like cross-mixing and filtering)... in the video is the upcoming delay mode that will be added to the prgm app, showing a quad setup in series with a buddha machine as input source. it is possible to connect them in parallell too, or just use one, or two... some retro musique concrete stuff will be possible too with a pulse/noise input, band reject filter mode and multiple internal feedback paths :)

  • "some retro musique concrete stuff will be possible too with a pulse/noise input, band reject filter mode and multiple internal feedback paths"

    oh hello! attention peaked